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Climate Science: Is it currently designed to answer questions?

Poptech

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Climate Science: Is it currently designed to answer questions? (PDF) (Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Atmospheric Science, MIT)

For a variety of inter-related cultural, organizational, and political reasons, progress in climate science and the actual solution of scientific problems in this field have moved at a much slower rate than would normally be possible. Not all these factors are unique to climate science, but the heavy influence of politics has served to amplify the role of the other factors. By cultural factors, I primarily refer to the change in the scientific paradigm from a dialectic opposition between theory and observation to an emphasis on simulation and observational programs. The latter serves to almost eliminate the dialectical focus of the former. Whereas the former had the potential for convergence, the latter is much less effective. The institutional factor has many components. One is the inordinate growth of administration in universities and the consequent increase in importance of grant overhead. This leads to an emphasis on large programs that never end. Another is the hierarchical nature of formal scientific organizations whereby a small executive council can speak on behalf of thousands of scientists as well as govern the distribution of ‘carrots and sticks’ whereby reputations are made and broken. The above factors are all amplified by the need for government funding. When an issue becomes a vital part of a political agenda, as is the case with climate, then the politically desired position becomes a goal rather than a consequence of scientific research. This paper will deal with the origin of the cultural changes and with specific examples of the operation and interaction of these factors. In particular, we will show how political bodies act to control scientific institutions, how scientists adjust both data and even theory to accommodate politically correct positions, and how opposition to these positions is disposed of.
Climate Science is less about actual science and more about political posturing. This is demonstrated here by the constant appeals to authority.
 
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You know, it's usually regarded as poor form (and a sign of a cowardly agenda) to simply post a snippet of something random without a reason or comment.

If you have something to say, say it out loud and clear. If not, what is your point?

Athon
 
Less is more?

Seems that the point is Poptech has nothing to say. Noodles be praised.
 
This paper and it's contents discusses the root of the problem with scientific discussions here. There is not skepticism here but blind allegiance to appeals to authority.
 
Hey, I welcome debate. Kind of have to in my line of work, and I enjoy reading all angles on climate science. What I find deplorable is the non-committal, sly 'slip under the door' remarks that stop short of saying anything solid that can be discussed, yet insinuate a disagreement.

So long as nothing is said, nobody can 'accuse' the proponent of saying anything.

While I appreciate valid information, playing hide and seek with those who seem more bent on having a bug up their arse with climate change science than really trying to arrive at a genuine understanding is pathetic.

Athon
 
This paper and it's contents discusses the root of the problem with scientific discussions here. There is not skepticism here but blind allegiance to appeals to authority.

Care to discuss? Maybe back up your statement with quotes from the piece? Explain why you feel the article is valid?

Or is it better for your argument to remain vague and dismissive, and present the illusion of having a robust argument by waving a hand at an article you've found and pretending that's enough to be taken seriously?

Athon
 
RealClimate.org is an environmental shill site associated with Al Gore

Care to discuss? Maybe back up your statement with quotes from the piece? Explain why you feel the article is valid?
RealClimate is constantly cited as a "authoritative" source when it is nothing but an arm of a left-wing environmental organization associated with al gore. From the piece...
Environmental Media Services (a project of Fenton Communications, a large public relations firm serving left wing and environmental causes; they are responsible for the alar scare as well as Cindy Sheehan’s anti-war campaign.) created a website, realclimate.org, as an ‘authoritative’ source for the ‘truth’ about climate. This time, real scientists who were also environmental activists, were recruited to organize this web site and ‘discredit’ any science or scientist that questioned catastrophic anthropogenic global warming. The web site serves primarily as a support group for believers in catastrophe, constantly reassuring them that there is no reason to reduce their worrying.
Further evidence...

RealClimate.org

Hosted by - Environmental Media Services

Admin Organization: Environmental Media Services

- Environmental Media Services (EMS) (Discover the Networks)

EMS's founder and President was Arlie Schardt, who also served as the National Press Secretary for Al Gore's 1988 presidential campaign, and as Gore's Communications Director during his 2000 bid for the White House. [...]

EMS officially served as the "scientific" branch of the leftist public-relations firm Fenton Communications; both companies shared the same Washington, D.C. address and office space. For more than a decade, David Fenton (CEO of Fenton Communications) used EMS to run negative media campaigns against a wide variety of targets, including biogenetic foods, America's dairy industry, and President George W. Bush. [...]

EMS also produced many stories condemning the Bush administration's environmental policies. Among these titles were: "Bush Administration Obscures Truth About Toxic Cleanups"; "President Bush Signs Fatally Flawed Wildfire Bill"; "Earth Day Event To Highlight Bush Administration Assault On Environment, Public Health"; "Bush Administration Report Card: 'F' on Protecting Children"; and "National Environmental Groups Launch Campaign to Defeat President Bush." EMS claimed that the data contained in its press releases constituted "the latest and most credible information" provided by "top scientists, physicians, and other experts." These "experts" included officials of Greenpeace, the Natural Resources Defense Council, the World Wildlife Fund, and the Union of Concerned Scientists.
- Environmental Media Services (EMS) (Activist Cash)

EMS is the communications arm of leftist public relations firm Fenton Communications. Based in Washington, in the same office suite as Fenton, EMS claims to be "providing journalists with the most current information on environmental issues." A more accurate assessment might be that it spoon-feeds the news media sensationalized stories, based on questionable science, and featuring activist "experts," all designed to promote and enrich David Fenton's paying clients, and build credibility for the nonprofit ones. It's a clever racket, and EMS & Fenton have been running it since 1994. [...]

It's called "black marketing," and Environmental Media Services has become the principal reason Fenton Communications is so good at it. EMS lends an air of legitimacy to what might otherwise be dismissed (and rightly so) as fear-mongering from the lunatic fringe. In addition to pre-packaged "story ideas" for the mass media, EMS provides commentaries, briefing papers, and even a stable of experts, all carefully calculated to win points for paying clients. These "experts," though, are also part of the ruse. Over 70% of them earn their paychecks from current or past Fenton clients, all of which have a financial stake in seeing to it that the scare tactics prevail. It's a clever deception perpetrated on journalists who generally don't consider do-gooder environmentalists to be capable of such blatant and duplicitous "spin."
 
RealClimate is constantly cited as a "authoritative" source when it is nothing but an arm of a left-wing environmental organization associated with al gore. From the piece...
Further evidence...

RealClimate.org

Hosted by - Environmental Media Services

Admin Organization: Environmental Media Services

- Environmental Media Services (EMS) (Discover the Networks)

- Environmental Media Services (EMS) (Activist Cash)
Ooh, look, more ad hominem. "Leftists" are they? Tssk, tssk. Wow, they even criticized Bush's environmental policies. Well in that case, the opposite of what they're saying must be the truth. I'm glad we cleared this up, it saved us having to look at any of those nasty scientific facts.
 
Ok, at first glance, the paper seems to bank on a single premise - climate change science is currently weaker than political measures seem to imply. With that assumption left blank and unchallenged, the rest of the paper proceeds to find examples where politics has misrepresented, changed, lied and exploited this alleged misassumption.

I have no doubt that politics is tightly woven into the practice of science. None at all. Scientists require money, and those resources come through political exchange. It's by no means a new thing, and has been discussed in science philosophy ad nauseum for the past century. Nobody would disagree.

Yet the strengths of climate science are flippantly reduced to a dismissive statement,

The situation is particularly acute for a small weak field like
climatology.

The paper's point of remaining aware of the exploitation of the public's literacy regarding certain fields of science is significant, yet also rather misleading. Politics is rarely ever a homogenous, unified field. Funding and support comes from many sources and interests, and the politics involved are often conflicting and diverse. The paper oversimplifies this issue and cherry picks appropriately.

Furthermore, while political influence cannot be dismissed, too little credit is given to the fact that scientific practice is often anti-political. In my own organisation, we've had a lot of individuals who have spoken against the political grain regarding many decisions, and the science communication industry has made significant gains in making debate transparent within and between organisations and individuals within.

The change in media in recent years has also seen to large changes in the influence politics has on the practice of science. With more available channels there is less pressure for maintaining the status quo of one's organisation or government. The result is more debate.

What we're seeing in the sci-com industry, therefore, is not a stifling of dissent, but rather an inability for the dissenters to present adequate arguments or present them in a cohesive fashion that makes any sense. The floor is all theirs, and yet they have nothing to say other than the same old rhetoric that has been addressed.

Politics and science will always go hand in hand. And yes, we always need to remain aware of the potential for exploitation of half-baked ideas and unsupported hypotheses. Yet while science literacy is still woefully inadequate amongst the general population, the diversity of political opinion and of communication channels means the idea of debate being stifled is quite simply ignorant.

Athon
 
Yes it would.

[B][URL="http://www.heartland.org/publications/NIPCC%20report/PDFs/NIPCC%20Final.pdf"]Climate Change Reconsidered[/URL][/B] (PDF) ([I]NIPCC[/I])

Then why are you linking to a poltical think tank, The Heartland Institute, than an actual scientific paper or source.

Sorry, but like other deniers, your political motivation is much more transparent than the Venusian atmosphere.
 
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What we're seeing in the sci-com industry, therefore, is not a stifling of dissent, but rather an inability for the dissenters to present adequate arguments or present them in a cohesive fashion that makes any sense. The floor is all theirs, and yet they have nothing to say other than the same old rhetoric that has been addressed.
Not at all. If you have followed this "debate" at all, it is a handful of environmental organizations (Greenpeace), politicians (Al Gore) and sites like RealClimate that dismiss everything that does not support their position. RealClimate claims to disprove anything and everything yet Gavin deletes and edits all comments he feels like. There is no "debate", never has been. When they did actually debate - the results are surprising.

Global Warming Is Not a Crisis - Introduction (1/10) (YouTube Video) (4min)
Global Warming Is Not a Crisis - Richard Lindzen (2/10) (YouTube Video) (8min)
Global Warming Is Not a Crisis - Richard Somerville (3/10) (YouTube Video) (8min)
Global Warming Is Not a Crisis - Michael Crichton (4/10) (YouTube Video) (8min)
Global Warming Is Not a Crisis - Gavin Schmidt (5/10) (YouTube Video) (8min)
Global Warming Is Not a Crisis - Philip Stott (6/10) (YouTube Video) (8min)
Global Warming Is Not a Crisis - Brenda Ekwurzel (7/10) (YouTube Video) (8min)
Global Warming Is Not a Crisis - Q&A 1 (8/10) (YouTube Video) (9min)
Global Warming Is Not a Crisis - Q&A 2 (9/10) (YouTube Video) (10min)
Global Warming Is Not a Crisis - Q&A 3 (10/10) (YouTube Video) (5min)
 
PT, I have seen that debate before you linked it here. What was interesting about it is that the anti-AGW group, it could be said, won that debate. At least as far as the audience was concerned. There were more people on the anti AGW side after the debate than before the debate. In other words, they convinced people that their side was right more than the other side convinced people that their side was right. I don't remember the raw numbers right now, but it was, if I remember correctly, fairly equally divided in the audience before hand, and slight to the skeptical side afterwords.
 
Yes that is what happened

In this debate, the proposition was: "Global Warming Is Not a Crisis." In a vote before the debate, about 30 percent of the audience agreed with the motion, while 57 percent were against and 13 percent undecided. The debate seemed to affect a number of people: Afterward, about 46 percent agreed with the motion, roughly 42 percent were opposed and about 12 percent were undecided.
 

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