Beering – slippery circular reasoning.
They may well try to reason so, but it is not consistent and I think I have shown in post No. 2 how it can be justified. One example is for healing crusades to get a doctor to examine anyone who is ill prior to entering and then afterwards. It has been suggested (by me) and some big evangelists, but to my knowledge, it still hasn’t happened, yet they go on claiming the evidence with bluffs and testimony. Anything but the proof.
C4ts – people fill certain roles.
Several current cases are ongoing with regard to people who stop taking their pills and become ill or die. In fact the Jehovah’s Witnesses no longer insist on not having blood transfusions but put the owness and choice upon the person/family instead of the churches teaching. The church has been libelled by adherents or ex JWs who have previously taken the instruction of the church and had their child die as a result. Some health and wealth (name it and claim it, blab it and grab it) preachers believe medicine is of the devil.
Oleron (you sexy beech, though I've had a few beers, I'll re-check you out in the morning!). Your similar experiences.
Your experiences very closely resemble mine. Once someone (anyone) has been convinced of something and come to that place of acceptance, one feels like one has established the position through careful reason and sound judgement, informed opinion and careful consideration. It's like a point one comes too. Once there and you begin to get involved, you slide the sceptical barriers away and the longer and deeper you go, the harder the chance of return. In a word, brainwashing and indoctrination
If a police officer comes round and says 'your wife has just killed 2 people, it’s been videod', you don't (more logical) assume the level headed law enforcer is telling the truth and curse your wife. You immediately begin to raise excuses or objections. ‘But she wouldn’t do that’, ‘there’s obviously been a mistake’, ‘you must have the wrong person’, etc. This is illogical (given the evidence), but more natural based on your knowledge of her.
I have a gay brother who has ‘backslidden’ from the church because of his sexuality and their non acceptance of it. As a teenager, he shared everything with his pastor about his sexuality. He was told that he would be cured and persuaded to date girls. He married a woman, had 3 kids and they divorced (very amicably) because of his sexuality. This is a common story.
You would not believe what Christians praise God for. They may be riddled with cancer, house burned down, wife left for a woman and have no money, but you should still be grateful for what you have. Many would feel bad for not having faith to claim their healing (which is there in spirit if not yet in the flesh).
KT (Kensington Temple) is a part of London City church, the largest church in Europe and based in London. Their website,
www.KT.org, is reflectively modern to appeal to today’s society. They video their meetings and you can see or hear them. They are typical of today’s Pentecostal church. I have worked with some of the preachers here. Watch Kristian’s ‘faith for miracles’ sermon for example. Lot’s of hype, motivation and personal testimony of his miracle experience, (typically and conveniently held overseas), and hardly anyone ever questions anything and everyone feels bad because they aren’t experiencing it, but no-one tells anyone else as it’s their lack of faith, so any here-say story is milked and someone associated with if possible.
On the video I mentioned above, Kristian Lythe also refers to having faith and going into hospitals to cure the sick through prayer. Given that I am not aware of ANYONE who ever done such a thing (with any success – there are lot of ministers assigned to hospitals and pray, and comfort deceased relatives etc.), so he’s being very optimistic, though the lack of results in hospitals and poor countries are strong arguments against healing (or at least faith or focus) today.
For goodness sake, the king has got no clothes on!
