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Choosing a Martial Art

Eddie Dane

Philosopher
Eddie Dane
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
6,681
NOTICE: I first posted this in the sports forum. But since there is so little traffic over there, I'm reposting it here. Sorry if it doesn't quite fit the description of the forum.

Hi,

My wife and children have forced me into a lifestyle of healthy food, regular sleep and no alcohol binges.

I have taken up running and I reckon I'm in reasonably good shape for a guy who's pushing forty.

In my teens I did Shotokan Karate.
In my twenties I challenged myself by doing kickboxing for two years. I was not good at it as I have a strong panic reflex when people start to hit me. Can't help but close my eyes when under attack. I specifically took up the sport to see if I could learn to control this reflex.

As you may have guessed, I'm not exceptionally tough.

Now I'm thinking of doing some martial arts again.

My criteria are:
  • A practical art that could help me in self-defence situation. But I cannot stomach getting clobbered by football-hooligans twice a week. I've done that and I'm too old for it. (I'm referring to the lessons here, I don't get in fights usually)
  • No formalised crap; There is something deeply wrong about learning reflexes that don't work in real life. In hindsight I did myself a disservice with the Shotokan.
  • Woo free. You know what I mean.

So, next week I'm going boxing with a friend. See how I like it. I suspect that I will like focusing on punching (karate has turned me into a kicking machine, punching always remained weak). But I also know that I will eventually think it too restricted.

A colleague of mine is starting Krav Maga. I like the idea, but suspect it is a "self defence" course. And with my little experience in MA, you don't learn to fight from such a course. Does anybody here have experience with KM?

And last but not least I've been looking at BJJ. It is tought in my hometown and after spending two nights watching youtube video's about it, I'm getting interested.

Is this something you can start from scratch at my age? I think I can only go to class once a week. (job, kids, you know).

What say you, JREF experts?
 
Most Kenpo classes are Woo free. I'd recommend observing several classes to get a feel. Shop around before committing.
 
Those of us with some background always recommending first deciding what you want out of an art or school of instruction. Looks like you have good ideas on that, and that's a good first step.
Then, you might look around as to what's actually available in your area, and check out the various schools. Most legit places will let you observe a class or two, and you can get an idea if the instructor knows what he/she is doing.
You can look for warning signs that the guy is suspect; do all the students refer to him as "master"? Does he allow a free exchange of ideas? That sort of thing.

As to actual practical styles.... Kenpo as listed tends to be good. The various flavors of "Mixed Martial Art" and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu as well, but watch for a tendency to favor training for competition. Krav Maga, the Israeli-derived art, is meant to be utterly practical. Likewise Jeet Kun Do, (Bruce Lee's synthesized style) if you can find a legit instructor. The various forms of Filipino-derived arts are practical as well, with a strong emphasis on weapons.
There are so many different styles and arts now it's difficult to keep track, and anyone can string together some Asian-sounding syllables and hang out a shingle...
Kajukenshorinbo-ryu or some such nonsense.
 
Bikewer is right. You need to shop around - in many cases, the specific dojo or instructor can be more important than the specific styles. While some styles have advantages over others (for example, BJJ is good for ground work & grappling, boxing is good for punching, while judo/aikido/ju-jitsu is good for joint locks & throws), one thing all styles suffer from - to one degree or another - is incompetent instructors who hang out a shingle and call themselves "master".

I've been practicing martial arts for over 20 years - I started with karate, TKD, and kung fu, and now I've been doing aikido for many years. I also have a bit of BJJ training as well, so I'm pretty well-rounded. In all that time, I have seen many good & bad instructors, and some who were downright woo-ish.

So, essentially, buyer beware.
 
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Eddie Dane said:
What say you, JREF experts?
Click to expand...

Check out Aikido. It's mostly blocks and throws, you won't get a beating during practice (you'll get thrown a lot, but part of the training is learning to roll so the throws don't hurt). If you're hoping on defending yourself in a real fight there's probably no substitute for practices in which you actually get beaten, but if you're mostly looking for a way to keep fit, it'll certainly do the job. Lessons usually begin with stretching exercises, which is particularly useful if you're not a spring chicken.
 
Aikido is not very practical AFAIK. A lot of the techniques like intercepting strikes and turning them into throws are only realistic when you know exactly what the other guy is going to do. Then again there's probably some good aspects to it too...

(first response was a joke btw!)
 
Eddie Dane said:
Now I'm thinking of doing some martial arts again.

My criteria are:
  • A practical art that could help me in self-defence situation.
Click to expand...


Well, that rules out 2-handed greatswords, a jabbing polearm device that made people master of the battlefield, coupled with a short sword should you make a major league goof and let somebody within the end of the sword.
 
cornsail said:
Aikido is not very practical AFAIK. A lot of the techniques like intercepting strikes and turning them into throws are only realistic when you know exactly what the other guy is going to do. Then again there's probably some good aspects to it too...

(first response was a joke btw!)
Click to expand...

Well, aikido can be practical, just as pretty much any martial art can be practical if practiced properly - but then again, any martial art can be taught very poorly and give the student a false sense of security. I've seen this happen with people in karate, TKD, judo, aikido, BJJ... you name it.

One more thing: one should not confuse "martial art" with "self defense". The two are often conflated when they shouldn't be.
 
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Beerina said:
Well, that rules out 2-handed greatswords, a jabbing polearm device that made people master of the battlefield, coupled with a short sword should you make a major league goof and let somebody within the end of the sword.
Click to expand...

Don't forget this guy.

Had to do it before JoeyDonuts beat me to it :)
 
I currently have a brown belt in Ju Jitsu. Like you, I'm not a particularly strong puncher, etc., and I have slower reflexes than most. However, I compensate by having a better memory.

From what I can tell, Ju Jitsu one of the most 'practical' martial arts out there.... covers a wide range of things (including throws, grappling, sparring, and locks), and is described by my instructor as "street fighting" (seems nothing is taboo... there are even techniques where you can use head buts and biting...). Of course, there's no guarantee that, confronted by any attacker that you'd actually be of the mind to actually use the techniques...

We don't do any 'woo' in the class (Well, there are formalities like bowing before and after a session, but we don't discuss Qi).

It can be rather rough. (The throws can be tough to handle when you get dropped a couple of dozen times in a class.)
 
I did Hapkido for about 7 years in my adolescence, and looking back, it was OK. It shared a lot with Aikido (at my school they taught that as well) but like another poster already said, not much in the way of practicality. I didn't find trying to intercept a punch at full-speed, then turning it into a joint lock and then throwing someone very practical. Also, a lot reminded me of a scene from Napoleon Dynamite: Grab my arm. Other arm -- MY other arm.

One of my best friends competes in professional MMA, and takes kickboxing and BJJ. I've sat in on some BJJ classes and found them to be really practical. Also very good for staying in shape. It may be a little rough though. Boxing also is good; it can be limiting, but you will learn how to punch, you will learn footwork, and you will get a work out from class. Overall, I definitely recommend sitting in on a class and getting a feel for any place which you're thinking about attending.
 
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Boxing is always a good starting point but if you don't like taking punches and panic then I'm afraid that you're going to suffer. Krav Maga is a very practically focussed scystem, if it works they use it. I've trained with a few KM practitioners (I have a lot of jewish friends) and the training tends to be taken pretty seriously, not formal but you train as realistically as possible. It's not a pretty art but if you're looking for effective combat it's pretty good.
Aikido can be awesome, had the privilege to train with an exceptional teacher a few years ago, however it is a very technical art and it takes a long time to get up to what I would call a 'street effective' level. In recent years there has been a large influx of people who have put a lot of woo in it. Some of the softer styles are genuine but it can be difficult to tell them apart sometimes from the 'I throw you with me Chi' types. Yoshinkan style is very effective though, my police self defence training incorporated a lot of Yoshinkan techniques and I can tell you from experience that they work.
Jiu Jitsu is another good art, lots of good strikes and locks but also a lot of good groundwork that is missing from many arts. And it is true that an awful lot of fights will end up on the ground. The only problem with its ground work is that it tends to assume you're against a single opponent, using both arms and legs to get an arm bar on them is powerful but not good while their mates are kicking you in the head.
MMA does tend to be competition focused as most of the attention it has gained has come from cage fighting/UFC etc. Still a decent grounding in a wide variety of techniques.
There are too many arts to mention really, see what's local and try a few lessons, the quality of the teacher is often far more important than the actual art. In the end there are only so many way that the body can move and you do tend to find that at high enough levels the difference between a lot of arts starts to blur.
 
I'd recommend BJJ based on your somewhat self-depricating description, as the entire format was originally designed to allow a smaller or less powerful individual defeat a larger opponent. The issue with choosing a specialty, is that there is no one that is perfectly we rounded and will allow you to defeat someone regardless of how things go down. As for the most successful method I've seen in regards to being a pure specialists, it would, odddly enough, be collegiate-style wrestling. This is based on performance under the rules (which don't apply in a street fight) of professional MMA. Wrestling simply teaches speed and control and if you have to learn somehting first, this allows you to avoid getting smashed early on the learning curve. You won't send anyone home crying to their Momma with it, but you will prevent them from injuring you or others. And once you have the fundamentals of that down, you can mix in some boxing/kickboxing/Muay Thai for stand-up proficiency and take some basic BJJ classes to learn to finish someone on the ground. I'm not an expert in any of these practices, just an observer of styles and the wrestling base has the generally best performance, plus it shouldn't be hard to find a school in your area that can teach it to you. Also, when it comes to the course, as people have said, it comes down to the instructors, if they are staunch purists who dismiss any other style, they likely will be blind to weaknesses in their own practice, so take them with a grain of salt. I took a course for several months and what made it great was the instructor had a general fascination with all styles, so he would indulge any kind of defense or attack you thought may work and would attempt to integrate it as part of his lesson. I wish you all the best, and if you take any kind of submission based class, always tap when you're caught, there's no reward for getting a dislocated joint in practice, and passing out is over rated. Good luck.
 
Eddie Dane said:
My criteria are:
  • A practical art that could help me in self-defence situation. But I cannot stomach getting clobbered by football-hooligans twice a week. I've done that and I'm too old for it. (I'm referring to the lessons here, I don't get in fights usually)
  • No formalised crap; There is something deeply wrong about learning reflexes that don't work in real life. In hindsight I did myself a disservice with the Shotokan.
  • Woo free. You know what I mean.
Click to expand...

I think I feel compelled to point out that "woo" is a function of the teacher and not of the art. I have studied the neijia (Chinese martial arts) for a number of years. Normally, these arts -- especially taiji -- are wickedly, wickedly woo-heavy ("if you hold this position for ten years, you'll glow green and become bulletproof"), but I had the good fortune to study under a Marine who studied them for their combat effectiveness and had no tolerance for BS at all.

And they are/were astonishingly effective; I found out just how effective the reflexes are/were in real life when I was auditing a hard-as-nails kung fu class a few years later, and the teacher startled me and found himself sailing through the air in the general direction of Mecca.

So I would actually recommend any martial art at all as long as you like the specific teacher's approach.
 
Eddie Dane said:
My wife and children have forced me into a lifestyle of healthy food, regular sleep and no alcohol binges.
Click to expand...

My condolences.

Seriously, though, I concur with those who are saying to shop around, figure out what you want out of an instructor/school, and that a lot of the woo is going to depend more on an instructor than it will the martial art in many cases.

That said: you might want to check out some basic boxing for some initial training, but be aware that you'll eventually be training full-contact (with pads) but it won't be immediate in most training I'm aware of. Someone mentioned Jeet Kun Do in an earlier post, and that is predominantly a "practical application" martial art when taught by legitimate instructors. You'll also find a lot of basis for JKD in Wing Chun Kung Fu classes, and you'll likely be more able to find a legitimate instructor for that. If you're looking for more likely to be found for a good workout, Kenpo or Aikido are both good options. Evaluate the instructor by sitting in a class if they'll let you, or ask if you can observe a class.
 
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