Chiropractic school angers FSU professors

[shemp]

link

A growing number of professors in the Florida State University College of Medicine are saying they will resign if FSU administrators continue to pursue a proposed chiropractic school.

And someone made up a joke map of the campus.

 

[Keneke]

The humor of the map doesn't really quell my fear of psuedoscience creeping in. At least Creationism is obvious and laughable; chiro-practice (word?) has the veneer of respectability. Is there anything an average concerned citizen can do?

 

[crimresearch]

Start spreading the rumor that Chiropractic is responsible for the declining fortunes of the football team?

That would shut it down in a hurry.

 

[Dr. Imago]

Very true. There is an article that was posted a year ago on Medscape concerning the addition of two naturopath advisors to the federal medicare/medicaid board. This board is one that shapes healthcare policy. For those with subscriptions, the link is here. For those without subscriptions, it's highly worth signing up (free) to read this great article.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/465994

In an excerpt from this excellent piece, the following conclusion was drawn:

If physicians continue to consider naturopaths and other "alternative" practitioners as inconsequential -- or, if the only articles on CAM that most physicians read are uncritical -- pseudoscience will continue to make inroads into patient care and health policy.

-TT

 

[Quasi]

One of the big players on getting naturopathy "integrated" is Dr. David Eisenberg MD, director of Harvard Medical School's Osher Institute of CAM. The Osher Inst. is actually several miles from the HMS campus, I am sure, to keep the uncritical employees from actual medical researchers. He hosts lectures on CAM, but takes no questions (for obvious reasons.) This is his way of shoving CAM onto the public without any transparency or accountability. He tried to licence Naturopathy in Mass, but he was thankfully stopped. The story is covered well on www.quackwatch.org. During my time at HMS I actually met someone from Osher. This person seemed genuinely to believe in their practice, but IMHO had no education higher than high school (they were a new age massage therapist.) Dr. Eisenberg also put the "Textbook of Natural Medicine, 4th ed., 1999" in the Countway Medical Library as an electronic textbook, so I read the whole thing. Let me tell you, it is scary. Not to mention the Mass. Medical Society counted hundreds of deliberate errors made in it to validate naturopathy (again quackwatch has the link.)

Quasi

 

[Bubbles]

The thing that I'm not clear on is this:

Is the FSU thing the (A) if we mess around with your back, you won't catch a cold or get cancer or (B) if we mess around with your back, we can make your back and/or neck feel better.

I doubt the first, but I have positive experiences with the second. For the record, one of the places that I have gone to seemed to believe in the first. I didn't care, he still did the second magnificently!

 

[epepke]

\And someone made up a joke map of the campus.

Heh. That's pretty funny, though of course this is like one-tenth of the campus.

The Dept. of ESP used to have these gold tiles on it that kept falling off and hitting passers by. Coincidence? I don't think so.

 

[davefoc]

Bubbles,
A number of people in this forum have stepped forward to say something like you said in defense of chiropracty from time to time.

The sentiment does little to justify chiropracty in my opinion because:.

1. The underlying theories of chiropracty are without scientific foundation and are inconsistent with any scientific theories.

2. Chiropracty often seems to include other completely bogus medical therapies such as homeopathy.

3. Assuming there is a legitimate element to chiropracty, which quackwatch suggests there is, that legitimate element is massage therapy and I see considerable risks associated with receiving massage therapy from an individual that has a medical education based more on superstition than reality.

4. Some aspects of chiropractic treatment can lead to strokes. Probably there are plenty of chiropractors who are aware of this and would avoid the riskiest treatments but clearly there are many that aren't and I don't know how one would tell one kind from the other.

 

[anonimouse]

Of course, this is a university that once closed down school so their students could go to a football game:

http://espn.go.com/ncf/news/2002/1001/1439528.html

So clearly, there's a firm academic tradition at FSU that would be jeapordized by the existence of a chiropractic school.

 

[yersinia29]

I have examined the scientific studies on chiropractic in detail.

the results are mixed.

There are some positive studies with randomized double blind placebo controlled trials.

Generally, these studies show that

1) SMT (chiro) is more effective than placebo for short term therapy for low back pain

2) Ditto for neck pain

3) Ditto for headaches

Other than that, chiro is basically useless.

Chiro is about as equally effective as massage therapy.

So there is a LITTLE bit of science to back up chiro. HOWEVER, the chiros you meet in practice dont stop there they venture into quackery talking about how chiro helps the immune system and other nonsense.

The problem with FSU is that its a state funded university, and there is ZERO evidence that the public citizens of Florida need chiropractors. Indeed, chiropractic students have the highest student loan default rate in teh country; that implies that chiropractors are not in demand and have trouble finding jobs once they graduate.

Why on earth would you need to go to school for 4 years and rack up massive amounts of debt just to treat 3 conditions? The principle of chiro is simple, it can be taught over a couple of months maximum. However, the people that run chiro schools try to dress it up as a "real" medical school and include content that they never use in practice. They add a bunch of hoopla to it so they can pretend to be real doctors that can treat a variety of conditions.

If you go to your chiro for low back pain, neck pain, or headaches, then more power to you. But you'd get about the same relief as a massage therapist, and they are a lot cheaper than chiros. If your chiro is talking nonsense about how his treatments can help your immune system or stimulate nerves then he is a quack and you should run away quickly.

The people at FSU never wanted this school. They had it shoved down their throats by politicians who sold their souls to the chiro lobby for campaign contributions.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Gee, suggest something about the hugest quack chiro out there...and he sends you an email!

Here's his email to me in response to something I emailed to the healthfraud lists:



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Twla:

I've only got about 18 or 19 thousand US Chiropractors on my mailing lists.
If you could find me another 20/25 thousand I'd be grateful...

I've got a lot more government employees, and MDs, on my list than Chiropractors.


Tim Bolen

PS - some of your messages are unintelligible. Edit them before you send
them out...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



He spells my name wrong for one thing. He's so immature, not that I'm surprised. Anti-vax liar, Hulda Clark butt kisser that he is.

I proposed to make him the spokesperson for all Chiro schools, that way people can see what the schools turn out. That's his response.

Well, I got his idiotic newsletter, so somehow I'm on his "list" too. I didn't even subscribe. I wonder if he's included me in his stats there somewhere? He obviously got my email off the healthfraud lists. Anybody can view them.

You can see my email address on this post:
http://www.ssr.com/cgi-bin/ezmlm-cgi?1:msn:94094:gedlcabpmegngcaolfkb

 

[Eos of the Eons]

I have examined the scientific studies on chiropractic in detail.


If you go to your chiro for low back pain, neck pain, or headaches, then more power to you. But you'd get about the same relief as a massage therapist, and they are a lot cheaper than chiros. If your chiro is talking nonsense about how his treatments can help your immune system or stimulate nerves then he is a quack and you should run away quickly.

The people at FSU never wanted this school. They had it shoved down their throats by politicians who sold their souls to the chiro lobby for campaign contributions.

Well said, and if I haven't welcomed you yet, then welcome to the boards! It's 3 a.m. I can't sleep...so please don't mind me too much for my memory at the moment!

 

[Rolfe]

There's a thread in the General Scepticism forum area announcing that the plans for this chiropractice school have been cancelled.



Rolfe.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

For Real? Forever?

http://www.ssr.com/cgi-bin/ezmlm-cgi?1:mss:95047:cmhmadfaimeacmpicpmb

the Board of Governors voted 10-3 to deny the approval of a chiropractic program at Florida State University. As far as we are concerned this will end our discussion of this issue and the designated committees need not continue work on this project. There will be a full report at the next Faculty Senate meeting.