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Child bride beaten in Yemen

Chimera

Mind Fetishist
Chimera
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
394
Child bride gets divorced after rape, beatings

SANAA, Yemen (CNN) -- Nujood Ali is 10 years old, but she already has been married and divorced. It was an arranged marriage in which she said a husband three times her age routinely beat and raped her.

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The 10-year old was granted a divorce, but the abusive husband was compensated, not prosecuted. "Based on based on the principles of Islamic Sharia law."

Muslims try to say that Islam is a religion of peace and completely compatible with a modern democratic society. WTF is up with this madness? Please tell me what I'm missing here.
 
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Chimera said:
Muslims try to say that Islam is a religion of peace and completely compatible with a modern democratic society. WTF is up with this madness? Please tell me what I'm missing here.
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I think what you're missing is that there are about a billion Muslims in the world. Islam is practiced in many different ways. Some flavors of Islam are compatible with Western democratic values, and some are not.
 
ravdin said:
I think what you're missing is that there are about a billion Muslims in the world. Islam is practiced in many different ways. Some flavors of Islam are compatible with Western democratic values, and some are not.
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There was a fascinating documentary on C4 (I think) the other night. It ably demonstrated that there were umpteen versions of Islam from the liberal to the psychotic. Sharia courts can be places of extreme justice as in Iran and Saudi Arabia to walk in local citizen's advice bureaus in less strident Muslim countries. It was a programme of contrasts with some Islamic theologians deploring many of the excesses and some advocating that the UK should try female circumcision if we wanted to stop adultery (he was a bit of a twunt actually)
 
ravdin said:
I think what you're missing is that there are about a billion Muslims in the world. Islam is practiced in many different ways. Some flavors of Islam are compatible with Western democratic values, and some are not.
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Interesting, thanks. I didn't realize Islam came in so many flavors.

Nogbad said:
There was a fascinating documentary on C4 (I think) the other night. It ably demonstrated that there were umpteen versions of Islam from the liberal to the psychotic.
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I'd like to watch that. So, when someone says that Islam is misunderstood, what they really mean is that some less offensive versions of Islam are misunderstood because of the other horrible varieties of Islam.

I play online scrabble with a Muslim lady on a network site, and she was somewhat offended when I added a "Fans of Ayaan Hirsi Ali" button to my site. She thinks Ali blames Islam for her "problems" (genital mutilation at age 5, rote memorization of the Qu'ran in place of a public education, and a young adulthood of fear and brutalization). My scrabble friend grew up in the US with a Muslim upbringing which she says was very positive.

Is Islam itself to be blamed for the difference, or cultural differences, do you think?
 
Chimera said:
Is Islam itself to be blamed for the difference, or cultural differences, do you think?
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Many times what are cultural or traditional norms in a mainly Muslim country are attributed to Islam.

Female circumcism is a case in point. It is a tribal custom mainly found in Africia and predates Islam by thousands of years. It is practiced by Christian, Pagan, and Muslim African tribes.

To be clear, female curcumcision in NOT Islamic and is Not found in the Quran or any other Islamic texts. And is forbidden by the religion.

But Islamaphobes and other anti Muslim sources have made it seem like it is a standard Muslim practice.
 
Chimera said:
I play online scrabble with a Muslim lady on a network site, and she was somewhat offended when I added a "Fans of Ayaan Hirsi Ali" button to my site.
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Ayaan Hirsi Ali was kicked out of Denmark when it was found out that she had made up lies about her past in order to enter the country and seek assylum.
 
Sunni Man said:
Many times what are cultural or traditional norms in a mainly Muslim country are attributed to Islam.

Female circumcism is a case in point. It is a tribal custom mainly found in Africia and predates Islam by thousands of years. It is practiced by Christian, Pagan, and Muslim African tribes.

To be clear, female curcumcision in NOT Islamic and is Not found in the Quran or any other Islamic texts. And is forbidden by the religion.

But Islamaphobes and other anti Muslim sources have made it seem like it is a standard Muslim practice.
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A fair point and an Islamic scholar on the programme said emphatically that it is not allowed. The cleric in the turban begged to differ but then he was also big on execution of homosexuals and other lunatic ideas - I suspect he was just not a very nice person.
 
Sunni Man said:
Ayaan Hirsi Ali was kicked out of Denmark when it was found out that she had made up lies about her past in order to enter the country and seek assylum.
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Yes, she talked about this in her book "Infidel". She says she did it because so many women with her story are not given asylum and have to go back to their homes. If I were in her situation, I probably would have lied to get out of it too.
 
Sunni Man said:
To be clear, female curcumcision in NOT Islamic and is Not found in the Quran or any other Islamic texts. And is forbidden by the religion.
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It certainly does not seem to be formally "forbidden". Is there a source supporting this statement? It is definitely the subject of much controversy.
 
Chimera said:
It certainly does not seem to be formally "forbidden". Is there a source supporting this statement? It is definitely the subject of much controversy.
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There is Not one single verse in the Quran or in the Sunnah of the Prophet to support the practice.

It is a primitive custom in use long before Islam. Mainly done in Somalia, Sudan, and parts of Egypt.

No reputable Islamic Cleric condoneds or supports the ritual.

Uneducated Islamophobes in the West use it to denigrate Islam and Muslims.
 
Sunni Man said:
There is Not one single verse in the Quran or in the Sunnah of the Prophet to support the practice.

It is a primitive custom in use long before Islam. Mainly done in Somalia, Sudan, and parts of Egypt.

No reputable Islamic Cleric condoneds or supports the ritual.

Uneducated Islamophobes in the West use it to denigrate Islam and Muslims.
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Except that you said it was forbidden by Islam, not unmentioned. Can you show us a verse or hadith that explicitly forbids female circumcision?

Chimera said:
Yes, she talked about this in her book "Infidel". She says she did it because so many women with her story are not given asylum and have to go back to their homes. If I were in her situation, I probably would have lied to get out of it too.
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And it was the Netherlands, not Denmark.
 
Well ladies, line forms to the right:

:D
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/12/11/214511.php
Many women in Egypt who have been initially partially circumcised have opted for full circumcision because in day-to-day life it brings about
a very profound feeling of contentment, calmness and satisfaction. You are completely freed from sexual thoughts, you can have no idea how liberating that feels. It is like removing an itch that you cannot scratch. There is no feeling of loss - specifically because the very thing that caused you to desire sex all the time has been removed. Do not believe the myth that sexual arousal is all in the mind.
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This from:
.... a 30 year old British born nurse. I met and married an Egyptian doctor several years ago, lived in Egypt for several years and converted to Islam and underwent female circumcision. I have no regrets.
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If you have a strong stomach, you may want to read the whole thing. Sex is enhanced though, :confused: so I guess it passes muster with the guys.
Perhaps castration is a good idea for the males then since they are so sexy all the time.

I agree that it generally has nothing to do with Islam, but some writing can be found that circumcision is required in the religion for both males and females. Not clear what ax these writers have to grind though.

Apologies if this is too much of a derail.
 
In all fairness, in spite of SunniMan's past declarations, I believe he's correct in this, that the Koran forbids the practice, and that discussions of this are used by Islam's foes to smear the belief.
 
Roadtoad said:
In all fairness, in spite of SunniMan's past declarations, I believe he's correct in this, that the Koran forbids the practice, and that discussions of this are used by Islam's foes to smear the belief.
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That may well be, I'm no Koran expert, but:

http://www.nocirc.org/symposia/fourth/aldeeb.html
The Koran does not mention female circumcision, but Classical authors rely again on contested sayings of Mohammed, who is reported to have praised it. They add that female circumcision became a norm among women after Sarah circumcised Hagar, who became pregnant, out of jealously. This is a way to attach female circumcision to the foremother, Hagar, as male circumcision was attached to the forefather, Abraham.
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I am finding about as many different opinions as there are Google entries. But "marrying" a 9 or 10 year old is wrong, and abusing a child is criminal.
 
Olowkow said:
I am finding about as many different opinions as there are Google entries. But "marrying" a 9 or 10 year old is wrong, and abusing a child is criminal.
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A girl being married that young is normal in many parts of the world.

But the guy broke the rules by having sex with her before she had reached puberty.
 
Sunni Man said:
A girl being married that young is normal in many parts of the world.

But the guy broke the rules by having sex with her before she had reached puberty.
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That was my understanding, that the marriage is arranged but not consummated until ...not sure about the puberty or age. I still feel that forced marriage or betrothal for a 9 year old is wrong. Marriage must be a contract agreed to honestly and openly between two people. There are many cultural beliefs that I find abhorrent, and some simply different and harmless.

As I recall from the story, the "guy who broke the rules", as in raping and beating, was not punished. Or did I miss that?
 
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