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Puppycow

Penultimate Amazing
Puppycow
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Obama Starts Reversing Bush Policies

Guantanamo Order Readied; Lobbying Rules Tightened

By Michael D. Shear
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, January 22, 2009; A01

President Obama moved swiftly yesterday to begin rolling back eight years of his predecessor's policies, ordering tough new ethics rules and preparing to issue an order closing the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, which has been at the center of the debate over the treatment of U.S. prisoners in the battle against terrorism.

Acting to address several promises he made during his campaign, Obama met with top generals about speeding the withdrawal from Iraq and gathered his senior economic advisers as he continued to push for a massive spending bill to create jobs.

He also signed a series of executive orders and directives intended to slow the revolving door between government service and lobbying, and ordered his administration to share information more freely with the public.

Today, he will issue another order calling for the closure of Guantanamo Bay within a year, an immediate case-by-case review of the 245 detainees remaining there, and the application of new rules governing the treatment and interrogation of prisoners, including compliance with international treaties that the Bush administration deemed inapplicable to suspects in terrorism cases.
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Alarmed? Relieved? Pleasantly suprised? Meh?
 
Remember that he, like every president, gets elected letting people project their desires onto him, e'en tho he not be inclined to carry them out, especially with fierce opposition from within his own party. Which is already started w.r.t. the $380 or $700 billion economic bailout he's pushing.
 
That we are closing Gitmo and getting our troops out of Iraq is music to my ears. Hooray!

Say what you will about Obama, he has already vastly improved the way much of the world sees our country.
 
One of the disadvantages of ruling by executive order rather than legislation is that any controversial rule will die with your administration. Since I disliked many of the decisions Bush made by executive order I am more than happy to see Obama overturn them. I would not be surprised if there were additional secret orders that have been overturned that we don't even know about.
 
Re closing gitmo. It all depends on what we do with the prisoners. If we close gitmo, but just move the prisoners to a similar system in Nevada? O-oo-bama will strain his arm patting himself on the back, but what would be the point?

And Bush had a plan for reduction of forces in Iraq, why think a new chief will actually make things happen faster?
 
casebro said:
Re closing gitmo. It all depends on what we do with the prisoners. If we close gitmo, but just move the prisoners to a similar system in Nevada? O-oo-bama will strain his arm patting himself on the back, but what would be the point?
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The difference will be that if the prisoners are on US soil their treatment (not just conditions, but how they will be tried) will be more easily reviewed by the US judiciary. You must recall that the major impetus for keeping the detainees in Gitmo was to deny the ability of detainees to sue in US courts by challenging the jurisdiction of the courts over people on foreign soil. The detainees thus were denied access to habeus corpus and the other protections of the legal system.
 
gdnp, countries (not just the US) some times suspend habeus corpus during times of war. It would be more of an issue if these were US citizens, but they are not. If you try the prisoners here, they are not going to have a jury of their peers. They have no peers here. The content of the trial is mostly classified anyway. So the only ones who have clearance to review their case are not likely to be someone that bleeding heart liberals will approve of.

Best to take them to a place such as Gitmo and deal with them. I know... oh the horror. Go ahead and cry for barbarians who fly planes into our buildings, strap bombs to children and behead civilians. 'But but now we're the barbarians'. No. There is a difference and some people are just not going to comprehend that.

As for the Iraq war... I don't care if Obama ends it... it's pretty much run its course anyway.
 
DrBaltar said:
gdnp, countries (not just the US) some times suspend habeus corpus during times of war. It would be more of an issue if these were US citizens, but they are not. If you try the prisoners here, they are not going to have a jury of their peers. They have no peers here. The content of the trial is mostly classified anyway. So the only ones who have clearance to review their case are not likely to be someone that bleeding heart liberals will approve of.
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It is not unreasonable to suspend habeus corpus in times of war if there is a state of emergency that requires it: if your country has been invaded and the courts are not functioning, I am not going to release prisoners just because I cannot give them a speedy trial. The war on terror is not such a war. The US legal system is sound and can handle the influx of a few hundred additional cases. So I see no reason to justify the suspension of habeus corpus. As to whether the people reviewing the case are those that bleeding heart liberals approve of, I couldn't care less. I care that someone independent of the prosecution is reviewing the case.

Best to take them to a place such as Gitmo and deal with them. I know... oh the horror. Go ahead and cry for barbarians who fly planes into our buildings, strap bombs to children and behead civilians. 'But but now we're the barbarians'. No. There is a difference and some people are just not going to comprehend that.
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Some are barbarians and murderers who deserve to be punished. Some, unfortunately, may have been innocent cab drivers and such turned in by opposing clans for bounty money. Those people have the right to protest their innocence.

As for the Iraq war... I don't care if Obama ends it... it's pretty much run its course anyway.
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I hope you are correct. I am concerned that Sadr et al figured out what has been obvious all along, that the best way to get the US out is to play nice until they leave, since once we go we are unlikely to go back in. I fear that once the US leaves that all-out civil war will break out.
 
It's becoming more likely with the drop in oil prices. They should have spent the money when oil was at $140 instead of hoarding it.
 
gdnp said:
The war on terror is not such a war. The US legal system is sound and can handle the influx of a few hundred additional cases.
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Does the US legal system have jurisdiction? These guys are not US citizens, and they are not in the US.

gdnp said:
Some are barbarians and murderers who deserve to be punished. Some, unfortunately, may have been innocent cab drivers and such turned in by opposing clans for bounty money. Those people have the right to protest their innocence.
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Do you have reason to believe there are cab drivers who somehow made it to Gitmo? And if there are, how do you know they don't have a way to protest? Many hundreds have already been released or transferred.

gdnp said:
I hope you are correct. I am concerned that Sadr et al figured out what has been obvious all along, that the best way to get the US out is to play nice until they leave, since once we go we are unlikely to go back in. I fear that once the US leaves that all-out civil war will break out.
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Well that's been the concern all along. At some point though, the Iraqis are going to have to take responsibility for themselves. It would suck if they aren't able to do it, but staying there forever is not an option. I do think it was necessary for us to stay this long, but now it's time for them to defend themselves.
 
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