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Cancer treatment?

I stand corrected.

Might I say "Ironic considering that Randi was born in Toronto."
 
*sighs*

SIMON HAYTER / TORONTO STAR
Bob Hunter was near death but he’s free of pain and back to work after receiving a variety of unconventional treatments. He meditates and continues a regime of special diet and supplements.
snipped)
Hyperbaric oxygen: Hunter sat in a sealed chamber filled with oxygen "creating hyperbaric pressure to supersaturate all the body cells with oxygen," Donsbach says. "Cancer cells do not multiply well in an oxygen-rich environment. Normal cells love it." In addition, Hunter had an oxygen mask over his face. "It felt like space travel — in a geodesic dome, much hissing of tanks," Hunter says.

For the love of the monkeys flying out of this man's butt...!

Okay, I just flew off an email to that staff person.
It reads thus:

I must admit right away that I am dismayed by this story. Integrative therapy notwithstanding, the sheer ignorance this man made his decisions on is personally irresponsible at best, and a potentially bad influence on others who are facing the same situation as Bob Hunter did when he was diagnosed.

The fact that yet another human being is being lauded for "courage" when he willfully put himself into that situation in the first place -the idea that he not only made his bed but he's also sleeping in it- is an example of misplaced admiration; a presentation of obviously biased proportions.

For future reference, perhaps one's heroes should be chosen a bit more carefully, as those who are gifted with plain common sense can attest that this is not a story of inspiration and pride. The fact of the matter is, this is an insult to the triumph and tragedy that people make; from patients to real medical doctors, to the various staff who live in a this world and struggle daily to preserve and encourage the flourishing of the life that is so cherished amongst ourselves and our loved ones.

///end email.

I think I did good. I done cut out all them swear-type words like "stupid motherphooker."
 
How to add oxygen to cells:-

Place patient atop large pile of brushwood.
Affix to post to prevent movement.
Pour oil over brushwood.
Apply fire to oiled brushwood. Stand well back.

(Chanting "Burn the Witch!" is optional, though traditionally part of the procedure.)

This is a surefire (sorry) way to prevent death from cancer.
 
Suezoled said:
I think I did good. I done cut out all them swear-type words like "stupid motherphooker."

Except there is some legitimate use for hyperbaric oxygen in the palliation of cancer, and this may be a medically-approved indication that he was undergoing.

For example:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15665658

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8635114

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8502093

Just FYI...

-TT
 
That's why you're the doctor.

I was working off the idea of basic cell biology; the idea runs that angiogenesis would decrease with the increase of oxgyen, which would likely decrease its rate of growth, but at the same time, the oxidative damage required to actually affect a tumour would also damage non-cancer cells.


ThirdTwin said:

As far as I was aware hyperbaric oxygen
 
Suezoled said:
I was working off the idea of basic cell biology; the idea runs that angiogenesis would decrease with the increase of oxgyen, which would likely decrease its rate of growth, but at the same time, the oxidative damage required to actually affect a tumour would also damage non-cancer cells.

Hmmm... I think the basic problem that HBO aims to treat is the loss of vascularity and poor perfusion to necrotic tissue. Cancer destroys the stroma and parenchyma of whatever organ or tissue it is invading. This is often the source of pain - cutting off the blood supply to tissue and cause that tissue to break down not only releasing pain-inducing byproducts but also even destroying the nerve tissue itself. If you supersaturate the body with oxygen, such as in HBO, you are able to provide oxygen to those tissues - even if to a more limited extent - and allow them to continue to survive and undergo aerobic respiration. Of course, this is a temporizing measure because you still would not be directly affecting the underlying cancer growth (which are just aberrant cells that still require oxygen for growth). Long story short, the patient actually feels better (temporarily) whether or not the underlying cancer is affected.

As far the anti-angionesis effect, I'm not sure if HBO would stunt this or not. Interesting concept, though, and this may be one of the underlying mechanisms at play. If you can find any study or data that looks at or suggests this, it'd be interesting to read.

-TT
 
Un-Corrected

ThirdTwin said:
Somehow I think that Mr. Randi would have a visceral reaction to this statement. After all, he is an American citizen, and proud to be one.

And, on a similar note, don't call him Randall Zwinge either.

;)

-TT
Third Twin, while Randi is understandably annoyed by bashers who call him Randall Zwinge, it is questionable that he would have a visceral reaction to being described as "from Toronto." In fact, he seems to have some fond memories of his Toronto childhood.

http://www.randi.org/jr/06-05-2000.html

http://www.randi.org/jr/07-16-2000.html
 
ThirdTwin said:
Hmmm... I think the basic problem that HBO aims to treat is the loss of vascularity and poor perfusion to necrotic tissue. Cancer destroys the stroma and parenchyma of whatever organ or tissue it is invading. This is often the source of pain - cutting off the blood supply to tissue and cause that tissue to break down not only releasing pain-inducing byproducts but also even destroying the nerve tissue itself. If you supersaturate the body with oxygen, such as in HBO, you are able to provide oxygen to those tissues - even if to a more limited extent - and allow them to continue to survive and undergo aerobic respiration. Of course, this is a temporizing measure because you still would not be directly affecting the underlying cancer growth (which are just aberrant cells that still require oxygen for growth). Long story short, the patient actually feels better (temporarily) whether or not the underlying cancer is affected.

As far the anti-angionesis effect, I'm not sure if HBO would stunt this or not. Interesting concept, though, and this may be one of the underlying mechanisms at play. If you can find any study or data that looks at or suggests this, it'd be interesting to read.

-TT

Well that would explain why it was also being used on patients who have MS. (the results were found negative since then...)
However, I am still bothered by the statement of cancer cells not liking oxygen, while non-cancerous cells "love it." As it was explained to me, the growth of the cancer would be slowed because its getting the oxygen it requires, so it doesn't need to tap into more blood vessels to maintain itself.
So I guess bottom line is that HBO treats pain, but is not a viable cancer treatment...?
 
Aerobic calories burn fat as your body breathes in oxygen. Low-intensity activities up to and including walking are mainly fat burning. However, as your body's need for energy becomes greater than your rate of oxygen intake, your body begins burning anaerobic calories.

Anaerobic calories burn glucose by converting a starch stored in your muscles known as glycogen. Since this doesn't require oxygen, anaerobic calories are used in very strenuous activities for short periods.

The accumulation of lactic acid as a by product of anaerobic activity produces a burning sensation in the muscle. This symptom means you are burning glycogen, not fat. You can't feel fat burning!

Can we link increase in anaerobic activities in body with cancer?
 
ThirdTwin said:

For one of the studies: "Hyperbaric oxygen (HBO) has been used as a tool in the management of osteoradionecrosis (ORN). However, it has not been conclusively proven to be of benefit."

What this needs is a large scale FDA blind study. Essentially, this guy in Mexico is scanning PubMed for any literature, and then implementing it full scale and strongly implying it will cure the cancer. This Greenpeace guy is being taken to the cleaners and all the journalist cares about is their future in a great PR firm. Pathetic.
 
Suezoled said:
However, I am still bothered by the statement of cancer cells not liking oxygen, while non-cancerous cells "love it." As it was explained to me, the growth of the cancer would be slowed because its getting the oxygen it requires, so it doesn't need to tap into more blood vessels to maintain itself.

Well, the bottom line is that we don't really understand all the ways a cell mutates when it mutates. Mutations happen all the time. The vast majority of the time, they are either corrected (e.g., at the intranuclear DNA level by known repair mechanisms such as p53 [a.k.a. "the guardian of the genome"], etc.) or the mutation is lethal to the cell and the cell dies without propagating. It's those pesky changes that allow the cell to live and, worse, spread.

So, it's not entirely unreasonable that a normal human cell could mutate into microaerophilic cancer cell that would prefer low oxygen tension, a more acidic environment, etc. But, whether or not this has been experimentally proven, I'm not sure. This would fall more into the realm of speculation.

What is known is that some cancers grow so fast that they outgrow their blood supply. The result is a tumor with a necrotic, dying or dead center. This is when new blood cells are recruited to the area. In effect, one could theorize that, if you were to provide sufficient oxygen to support the normal, non-cancerous cellular architecture, then new blood vessels would not be recruited towards the tumor. The tumor would then "choke" because it was not getting enough blood supply in it's periphery. It would then die.

In practice, I think this is a pipe dream.

It makes more sense to use HBO in palliation, where super-saturating oxygen into the tissues prevents the areas being choked of oxygen by tumor invasion and impingement (which is what really happens) will result in better perfusion of the existing supporting tissue (or stroma) and allow the body the opportunity to clear the debris from the tumor processes. Again, this won't stop the tumor from growing, but it will help with the pain.

At least, that's the theory...

As far as hyperbaric oxygen killing cancer cells, I think this falls more into the realm of what looks good on the drawing board (i.e., creating superoxide radicals that can attack celluar membranes) than it does in practice (such radicals are not tumor-specific and, therefore, not any less toxic than other anti-cancer chemotherapies).

Just offering nothing more than my scientifically-based speculations here.

-TT
 
Thank you Third Twin.

...I don't care what those flying monkeys say about you, you're okay in my book! :D
 
Re: Re: Un-Corrected

ThirdTwin said:
Touché.

:D

-TT

Thanks (near-to-be) doc!

Usually doctors are gracious, for which the public is extremely grateful.

Unlike some other posters on this forum (not to mention post-docs!....);)
 

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