Cancer Science??

[Kumar]

Hello,

I am bit hesitant in posting this topic. Still, I have two simple questions:-

1. What can be the relationship between Cancer & Lactic acid(LA)?

2. How Cancer can be related to tonicity (esp. cell swelling due to altred tonicity)?

Following links can be bit helpful:-

"Lactic Acid Found To Fuel Tumors
ScienceDaily (Nov. 23, 2008) — A team of researchers at Duke University Medical Center and the Université catholique de Louvain (UCL) has found that lactic acid is an important energy source for tumor cells. In further experiments, they discovered a new way to destroy the most hard-to-kill, dangerous tumor cells by preventing them from delivering lactic acid.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081120171325.htm "

Tonicity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonicity

Cancer Basics;
http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerBasics/index

Best wishes.

 

[Zep]

Do you know what lactic acid is and how it is formed, Kumar?

And please do NOT quote a Wiki reference at us. WE know the answer. The question is do YOU know the answer.

 

[Dancing David]

Tumor cells with good oxygen supply actually prefer to burn lactate, which frees up glucose to be used by the less-oxygenated cells. But when the researchers cut off the cells' ability to use lactate, the hypoxic cells didn't get as much glucose.

Not about what you think silly Kumar.

So when they kept the cells from getting lactate they had to switch to glucose.

 

[Kumar]

Not about what you think silly Kumar.

So when they kept the cells from getting lactate they had to switch to glucose.

But still there can be excess of lactate geeration in cancer. One perspective suggest that iron is withheld after getting the cancer to starve them as a survival mechnism. Decreased iron can be related to low O2 concentration so more the lactate generation.

 

[WhatRoughBeast]

2. How Cancer can be related to tonicity (esp. cell swelling due to altred tonicity)?

Following links can be bit helpful:-

Tonicity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonicity

From your own link: "It is commonly used when describing the response of cells immersed in an external solution."

Exactly what cancers form from cells immersed in an external solution? Please be specific.

Skin cancers obviously don't count, since the external layers get sluffed off as a matter of course. Mouth and esophogeal tissues are usually protected by mucus.

And why would swelling cause DNA changes in the tissues involved?

 

[Dancing David]

But still there can be excess of lactate geeration in cancer. One perspective suggest that iron is withheld after getting the cancer to starve them as a survival mechnism. Decreased iron can be related to low O2 concentration so more the lactate generation.

So the cells generate lactate, that is what they do, it does not mean anything about the 'tonicity'.

I can hardly wait to read what your are thinking.

Cancer is caused by a lot of things, osmotic pressure is not one of them, it is a normal part of cell function, I wonder what calcium channels do Kumar? Lactic acid is going to be excreted whee the concentration in the cell is higher than in the environment outside the cell. Or when there are transport channels to carry it.

 

[Zep]

Kumar has no idea what "tonicity" actually means. It just sounds sciency to him.

 

[Fnord]

So now Kumar has a medical degree?

Yeah ... right ...

 

[Zep]

So now Kumar has a medical degree?

Yeah ... right ...

No, he doesn't. And he doesn't seem to have a junior school graduation certificate either.

 

[Kumar]

From your own link: "It is commonly used when describing the response of cells immersed in an external solution."

Exactly what cancers form from cells immersed in an external solution? Please be specific.

Skin cancers obviously don't count, since the external layers get sluffed off as a matter of course. Mouth and esophogeal tissues are usually protected by mucus.

And why would swelling cause DNA changes in the tissues involved?

Thanks for visiting.

Let us think that, inherited or acquired delicacy of cells may encourage increased mutations. In view of survival, those cells may acquire some form of compensatory hardiness and become cancerous be acquiring properties of non-responsive to body's normal signals, DNA repair and cell sucide and get enhanced survival & fast multiplications. Reversing such hardiness, if possible, may cure cancer by bringing those to get normal signals--of DNA repair & cell sucide. Now we have to find, what can make cells to become delicate. I suspect that, cell swelling, lactic acid(or acidosis), oxidative stress(chronic inflammation) or otherwise promoted by odd exposures can be the culprits of making cells delicate.

 

[Zep]

Thanks for visiting.

Let us think that...

No, let us not imagine all sorts of fancy unfounded ideas. Let us go find out how the real world works first. That's called "research". Scientists do it all the time.

 

[Kumar]

So the cells generate lactate, that is what they do, it does not mean anything about the 'tonicity'.

I can hardly wait to read what your are thinking.

Cancer is caused by a lot of things, osmotic pressure is not one of them, it is a normal part of cell function, I wonder what calcium channels do Kumar? Lactic acid is going to be excreted whee the concentration in the cell is higher than in the environment outside the cell. Or when there are transport channels to carry it.

I think, lactic acid or acidosis is related to transcellular shift to extracellular of K & Na shift to intracellular via Na/K pump. I can't say if Mg & Ca also moves due to acidosis. Anyway this can cause cells to swell due to more Na intracellular. Hypotonic environment can also cause cell to absorb more extracellular fluid/water, resulting cell swelling progressing towards cytolysis. Also read my last post pls.

 

[Zep]

I think, lactic acid or acidosis is related to transcellular shift to extracellular of K & Na shift to intracellular via Na/K pump. I can't say if Mg & Ca also moves due to acidosis. Anyway this can cause cells to swell due to more Na intracellular. Hypotonic environment can also cause cell to absorb more extracellular fluid/water, resulting cell swelling progressing towards cytolysis. Also read my last post pls.

It's considered extremely rude to copy other people's information and pretend it is yours.

 

[Dancing David]

Thanks for visiting.

Let us think that, inherited or acquired delicacy of cells may encourage increased mutations.

No

In view of survival, those cells may acquire some form of compensatory hardiness and become cancerous be acquiring properties of non-responsive to body's normal signals, DNA repair and cell sucide and get enhanced survival & fast multiplications. Reversing such hardiness, if possible, may cure cancer by bringing those to get normal signals--of DNA repair & cell sucide. Now we have to find, what can make cells to become delicate.

No

I suspect that, cell swelling, lactic acid(or acidosis), oxidative stress(chronic inflammation) or otherwise promoted by odd exposures can be the culprits of making cells delicate.

You don't know what chronic inflamation is? Why am I not suprised. It is not from the cells swelling.

 

[Dancing David]

I think, lactic acid or acidosis is related to transcellular shift to extracellular of K & Na shift to intracellular via Na/K pump. I can't say if Mg & Ca also moves due to acidosis. Anyway this can cause cells to swell due to more Na intracellular. Hypotonic environment can also cause cell to absorb more extracellular fluid/water, resulting cell swelling progressing towards cytolysis. Also read my last post pls.

Um in vivo or in vitro, and what possible other mechanism could be involved in the K/Ma shift in acidosis?
You have not established any sort of causal relationship. Are K and Na basic or acidic Kumar?

 

[Zep]

Watch! He will confuse "basic", simple or rudimentary, with "basic", a Ph measure.

 

[Kumar]

No

No


You don't know what chronic inflamation is? Why am I not suprised. It is not from the cells swelling.

We should check it seriously.

 

[Zep]

We should check it seriously.

No we don't.

 

[Kumar]

Um in vivo or in vitro, and what possible other mechanism could be involved in the K/Ma shift in acidosis?
You have not established any sort of causal relationship. Are K and Na basic or acidic Kumar?

I meant in vivo. Transcellular shift of K is possible by acidosis.

Potassium is the primary intracellular cation; more than 95-98% of the total body potassium is found in the intracellular space, primarily in muscle. Normal homeostatic mechanisms serve to precisely maintain the serum potassium level within a narrow range. The primary mechanisms for maintaining this balance are the buffering of extracellular potassium against a large intracellular potassium pool (via the sodium-potassium pump) and urinary excretion of potassium.
•Transcellular K+ shifts: In a transcellular potassium shift, a hydrogen ion enters a cell and leads to decreased K+ uptake by the cell in order to maintain electrical neutrality. Acidosis is the most common cause of hyperkalemia due to transcellular potassium shift, but any process that leads to cellular injury or death (eg, tumor lysis syndrome, rhabdomyolysis, crush injury, massive hemolysis) can cause hyperkalemia, as intracellular potassium is released by disruption of the cell membrane. Other causes of hyperkalemia due to transcellular shift of potassium include propofol ("propofol infusion syndrome"),[3] toxins (digitalis intoxication or fluoride intoxication), succinylcholine, beta-adrenergic blockade, strenuous or prolonged exercise, insulin deficiency, malignant hyperthermia, and hyperkalemic periodic paralysis.'
Insulin Decrease Stimulates K+ entry into cells by increasing sodium efflux (energy-dependent process)
Beta-adrenergic agents Decrease- Increases skeletal muscle uptake of K+
Alpha-adrenergic agents Increase- Impairs cellular K+ uptake
Acidosis (decreased pH) Increase -Impairs cellular K+ uptake
Alkalosis (increased pH) Decrease -Enhances cellular K+ uptake
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/907543-overview#a0104

Controlling cell volume One of the important functions of Na+-K+ pump is to maintain the volume of the cell. Inside the cell there are many proteins and other organic compounds that cannot escape from the cell. Most, being negatively charged, collect around them a large number of positive ions. All these substances tend to cause the osmosis of water into the cell, which, unless checked, can cause the cell to swell up and lyse. The Na+-K+ pump is a mechanism to prevent this. The pump transports 3 Na+ ions out of the cell and in exchange takes 2 K+ ions into the cell. As the membrane is far less permeable to Na+ ions than K+ ions the sodium ions have a tendency to stay there. This represents a continual net loss of ions out of the cell. The opposing osmotic tendency that results operates to drive the water molecules out of the cells. Furthermore, when the cell begins to swell, this automatically activates the Na+-K+ pump, which moves still more ions to the exterior.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na+/K+-ATPase#Sodium-Potassium_pumps

 

[Bruce Voigt]

MAGIC MAGEE AND C A N C E R
I am led to believe, from experiments, that the influential orbital speed of Magee’s nuclei is a bit slower than the orbital nuclei of our body cells. A cancer cell is a cell that has its orbiting nuclei sped up to the point where this cell is forced to divide within healthy, packed cells. I can say that using Magic Magee will stabilize and slow nuclei orbital speeds of both healthy and cancerous cells. In just a few hours the body has these treated cells back to normal body cell speed (re: Burn and Cure).

I suspect that whatever is causing this nucleus abnormality is still present so a Magic Magee treatment plan would be established.

A cancerous cell is a cell and it too requires nourishment. These fast orbit nuclei feed on faster food than that which normal cells of the body feed on. The cause of cancer is its food; there comes a time where these dividing cancer cells run short of nourishment and desperately look for another fast food source. This source is body fat. The big problem is that the orbit speed of fat is again faster, promoting expeditious cell division. Even after death, hair continues to grow. The reason for this is that faster than normal cell orbital nuclei promotes cell division.

Forces of equal evolution act upon forces of equal evolution and by administering poison (chemotherapy) the orbit nuclei speed is slowed, hampering cell division. Chemo also affects healthy cells causing nutrition to now be a predator, creating a new disease.

Without forced cell division within the hair follicle the hair dies and falls out.

Once a cancer cell starts feeding on body fat the orbit nuclei speed is increased enough to affect the orbital nuclei speed of a healthy cell making that healthy cell a cancer cell! At this stage the body is robbed of its fat and fat being the body’s safety from fast nutrition, fast nutrition is now predator not prey, and kills the body. For you to properly understand this paper you will need to know my science.