Cancer and "positive attitude"

shalomsteph

Critical Thinker
shalomsteph
Joined
Dec 25, 2005
Messages
363
OK guys, I know I haven't posted in awhile, but I need some advice.

I was recently (20 Dec) diagnosed with breast cancer and will be undergoing chemotherapy for the next three months. Good news? It was caught early and is *only* a stage IIa. Bad news? It was into the lymph nodes.

OK, so I am *already* sick of people telling me to "keep a positive attitude." and that "a positive attitude will fight cancer." I know of no scientific evidence of this, and I don't quite understand how if I smile through or grumble through, the medications will be any more or less effective?

I am by nature a rather optimistic person, but this really threw me a curveball, and I am angry. Why can't I be angry? Even the oncologist told me to "be positive." Why? Can't she do her job right and cure me anyway?
 
Read Bright-Sided: How Positive Thinking is Underminding America by Barbara Ehrenreich (ISBN 9780312658854). She starts the book talking about her own bout with breast cancer and being overwhelmed by people telling her to think happy thoughts.
While she is on a message board someone tells her to 'run, not walk' to get counseling when she expresses anger at her daignosis.

My Mom felt the same way when she had cancer. They told her to be happy and tried to give her a Teddy Bear. She told them to give the bear to a kid and started reading cancer (gallows) humor.
 
I have heard that being relaxed can help improve recovery times but that is a far cry from having what others might consider a "positive attitude". There are many people who find complaining to others a great way to blow off steam and thus relax. When I was going through a rough patch a nurse actually recommended watching movies that make me cry so I could just get through the emotions in a safe and relaxing way.

Do what makes you feel best and don't let the unreasonable attitude expectations of others get in your way. If you need to feel angry, feel angry. If you need to cry, then cry. Your personal feelings are more important than the external perception of whether you have a "positive attitude" or not.

I don't know if I am being helpful or not but I hope all the best for you. Good luck with your treatment.
 
Stress can certainly lead to health problems - digestive issues and problems with appetite, sleep problems, etc. I'm not sure how telling someone to have a positive attitude could possibly help though. I have been under extreme stress due to health issues and I can tell you that what helped me was doing jigsaw puzzles. That might not work for everyone, but something that stops you from thinking about your problems for a few hours should do the same. And Xanax.
 
I think that the cult of positive thinking is mostly woo. In its extreme form it leads to ridiculous ideas like the book The Secret, which is total woo.

As long as your negative thinking doesn't become pathological it shouldn't be a problem.

I do think, however, that excessive worrying can sometimes become pathological. The brain may be a little like the body in that muscles or parts of the brain that get the most exercise become stronger and more dominant, and those parts that are not used become weaker over time. So the more time you spend worrying or obsessing about a certain thing, the more likely you are to develop a habit of worrying or obsessing. This may be what leads to OCD (I don't know, I don't claim to be an expert, but I know someone who seems to have developed this problem). This would not have any effect on your cancer IMO, but could have a long-term effect on your mental health and happiness.
 
I was bed-bound in a nursing home for a total of around three and a half years, all told. I was in a wheelchair for another two-ish years before I went through a year of physical therapy to walk again. I know I've mentioned this before on JREF, but in this case, I want to emphasize that I had a *****-ton of time to do nothing but think and figure my life out.

Essentially, I've learned to feel whatever it is I feel -- I give myself permission to feel it. Then I let it go. I don't dwell on those feelings. I started to analyze what it was that triggered those feelings and see if there is anything I can do to change. Heck, I'm still on the fence of whether or not we have true "free will", but I still use the words of free will.

At any rate, I hope that it helps a little with what you're going through. Don't worry if people judge how you feel. Acknowledge that and don't dwell on it.
 
YMMV, but, it's possible that embracing death could rear its ironic head.

Have you maxed out your credit cards yet?
Taken that un-affordable vacation you always wanted?

Try that.
God may express his viciousness by keeping you alive and well, and facing the foolishness of your new-found debt.
 
This is coming from someone who works in the field of oncology research, but has few direct encounters with patients (though I'm often in the room).

I think it's mean to tell a cancer patient to stay positive. In fact, I think it's rude to tell a cancer patient to feel anything other than what they are feeling. The only thing a positive attitude seems to net you is more smiling faces at your bedside.

On the other hand, if you have a negative attitude, it does kind of make caretakers want to avoid you, which may or may not affect your level of care on a relatively negligible level.
 
From the link I provided in my last post:-

This is why we sometimes have the confusion that stress can sometimes lower the immune system and sometimes "up-regulate" it. Stress may be a good thing to prepare the immune system to help us overcome a physical stress. But like the saying goes, too much of a good thing is not always healthy, and in the case of stress, chronic production of stress hormones may make us immunosuppressed, leading to decreased immune function.
Click to expand...
 
I would guess the heart of this issue lies in the way chronic depression and anxiety can decrease effectiveness of the immune system.
 
Halfcentaur said:
I would guess the heart of this issue lies in the way chronic depression and anxiety can decrease effectiveness of the immune system.
Click to expand...

As per the provided link. if dpressssion, anxiety and cancer is taken as stress then such chronic stress can compromise immunity. But in case of such acute stress, it can up-regulate immunity.
 
Well-wishers and positive attitude people and folks offering me herbal remedies swarmed around me while I was going through radiation treatments for throat cancer, and quite frankly they ticked the absolute bloody HELL out of me. I couldn't see the point in adopting a positive, hope for the best attitude. It hadn't done a damned thing for preventing me from getting cancer (to this day, the doctors are still puzzled, as I have ZERO risk factors that they can identify). I decided it was just plain dumb bad luck.

I got through by simply getting mad. I lit a slow fire internally, and let it burn through the month-and-a-half of radiation treatments. I probably wasn't very approachable those days, but I was too busy hunkering down and bulldozing my way through the situation, and I was very careful not to aim my anger at any one individual (except for an overly solicitous boss who kept trying to schedule a long block of sick leave for me 'to get over it' -- I told him rather sharply that I could get over it just fine while concentrating on my job, rather than sitting around the house, thank you, and my production actually went UP during that period).

The contained rage did absolutely NOTHING as far as the actual treatment of the disease, but it kept me probably from dwelling on it and getting depressed. You can't really do anything to influence the medical out come yourself, but the mental outlook is all yours for the making. Plus, I always stopped and got a large chocolate shake on the way to the oncology center.

One thing to consider is that when people find out about your condition, it reminds them of their own mortality. They see themselves in you, and -- possibly for the first time -- they have to think about what would happen if THEY were in your situation. It scares them. Sometimes the best thing you can do for their sake is to thank them for their concern and suggestions. It's surprising just how good it makes you feel when you can make them feel better.

Regards;
Beanbag
 
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Everybody deals with this in their own way. My later,beloved wife went through her 1st round of breast cancer 12 years ago and was "fortunate" (her words, not mine) that she was still able to be very active - new job teaching, able to hike, XC ski, garden, cook, etc. She was always happy which I think helped her through. 10 years later it came back and metastasized – advanced stage 4 when diagnosed. At that point it was quality of life, not quantity. She (we) had one hell of a last year. Till the end she was able to hike, garden, cook, fulfilled her lifelong dream to see the penguins in Antarctica. We coped by pretending life was normal (other than the weekly chemo treatments). My last memory of her is her smiling minutes before she died as she looked at an album of our times decades ago in the Canadian Rockies - a place we both loved. In the last year when she knew it was terminal she still always smiled and was upbeat. I believe that helped her cope with an awful situation, but it was also her nature – the glass was always ½ full.

This is what worked for her, but it was consistent with her nature. I believe her quality of life was greatly improved by staying extremely active and being upbeat.
That said, I think you have to find your own way. I don’t think there is a one size fits all. But I believe being active and upbeat will improve the quality of your life. I believe there is some evidence that exercise will help you through the chemo. If your weight starts to drop, ask your oncologist if he/she thinks you should be on appetite stimulants.

Best of luck.

PS – I don’t know if she had stayed on Tamixfon (spelling) beyond the normal 5 years if she would be alive today. I know the recommended time is 5 years as there are some other cancers that are more likely on this medication, but as the data comes in, the protocol may change. Check with your oncologist if you should go beyond the 5 years.
 
I was recently (20 Dec) diagnosed with breast cancer and will be undergoing chemotherapy for the next three months. Good news? It was caught early and is *only* a stage IIa. Bad news? It was into the lymph nodes.
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Steph
Not sure that's a bad thing since treatment for lymphoma has bounded ahead.
I'm 3 and half years out from a similar stage lymphoma ( 6 chemo plus spinal and radiation ) and not far off a cure declare.
The doc says you might see me again for cancer but it won't be that one.

I did not tell anyone but close staff ( not even my daughter ) until I was actually out the other end of the treatment and declared in remission ( about 7 months ). The reason - did not want the emotional burden of dealing with their concern.

The best support group was here
http://www.cancerforums.net/forums/16-Lymphoma-Hodgkin-s-and-Non-Hodgkin-s-Lymphoma-Forum
You can let your hair down with peers - highly recommended including using it as a diary over the treatment as it helps your onco team.

That said - "spirits up" is important as something like 25% of patients develop depression and that sometimes results in poor treatment compliance.
You DO need to coddle yourself and do things to treat yourself to "feel good" things as your body is in a serious warfare mode and the treatments can leave you feeling big time wasted.

I stuck to as much a normal schedule as possible with quick escape routes when I crashed. No one except close staff and professionals knew until I was in the remission stage and at that point the well wishing was very welcome and far easier to deal.

So good luck - chin up and don't be afraid to let people know you need "time to yourself" to deal with the side effects......you do.
Do monitor yourself for depression and that forum may really be good as only someone in it or been through it can adequately understand your journey.

I think in your case as it was in mine that thinking positive was a good suggestion from the onc as you DO have an early stage and every right to consider a good outcome as likely.
Your cancer team are people as well and I tell you that needle goes in more smoothly with a smile ( I AM a cranky bear about that as I have deep squirmy veins )

But dealing with the well wishers and woo purveyors is exhausting which is why I avoided it. -It's easier for a middle age male to explain going bald tho ;)
 
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Thanks guys and gals. I have my first chemo treatment tomorrow (well, today) I am calmer, probably because 450cc of lymphatic fluid was removed from my breast. Ouch. I want to start so I can get it over with.

A woman I barely knew preached to me in the waiting room, something about Isaiah and God walking alongside me. I said it would have been much better if God didn't give me cancer to begin with. Or if he would spare small children, for that matter. She shut up. That was fun.
 
shalomsteph

Sorry to hear the news, but as an incurable optimist myself, and one who had similar cancer 25 years ago, I can understand how you get fed up with people saying be positive! I think you are a naturally positive person, or you're not! Statistically, I should think your odds are pretty good. Claire Rayner once said that she got fed up with people telling her to 'fight it'. She too, like you, said she'd rely on the medical profession to do the best they could for each particular patient.

With the increased reliability of chemotherapy (my d-in-law had it two years ago) and selective radiotherapy - a time which you'll be glad to be at the far end of - a return to fulll health is very strong.

Good luck and good wishes.

ETA I wrote that before reading the other posts. One thing is certain, here on JREF you will certainly not have the gloomy voice brigade who put on a special voice and ask, 'How are you feeling, dear? It must be so difficult for you,' etc etc. :)
 
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Neither stressful events, nor a woman's 'fighting spirit' have any impact on the likelihood of developing or dying from breast cancer, say scientists.
This latest research contradicts earlier findings linking high-stress incidents to breast cancer.

The new conclusions, published in the Lancet and the British Medical Journal suggest that psychological factors have no significant bearing on the disease.

The only exception was that women who felt that the situation was "hopeless" generally fared worse than others.
...
The other survey took nearly 600 early diagnosis breast cancer patients at the Royal Marsden Hospital in London and asked them their attitude to the disease.

A total of 166 women were classed as having "fighting spirit", in that they took a more positive approach to the disease, perhaps seeing it as a challenge rather than a burden.

No signs of a benefit

However, this had no bearing on the outcome of their illness, according to researchers.

The only instance in which mental state appeared to affect outcome was for those with the most negative thoughts - these appeared to worsen the chances of survival.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/475128.stm
 
shalomsteph said:
Thanks guys and gals. I have my first chemo treatment tomorrow (well, today) I am calmer, probably because 450cc of lymphatic fluid was removed from my breast. Ouch. I want to start so I can get it over with.

A woman I barely knew preached to me in the waiting room, something about Isaiah and God walking alongside me. I said it would have been much better if God didn't give me cancer to begin with. Or if he would spare small children, for that matter. She shut up. That was fun.
Click to expand...

Hi there - I was diagnosed with breast cancer in May and have had surgery and completed chemo four weeks ago. I'm now having radiotherapy. Unfortunately, this diagnosis does seem to open the door to all sorts of rubbish. I've been offered prayers (even by those who know I'm an atheist), telephone reiki, shamanism and yes, the ubiquitous "keep positive" comments. YOu are right, there is not a jot of evidence that positive (or negative) thinking impacts on outcome. Therefore, I've come to the conclusion that it's a godless form of prayer / superstitious thinking. Placebo effects aside (not sure they work on malignant tumours), people like to think they can control what happens to them. It can even scare them if you state the possibility that your disease might recur - I know my OH seems to think that me even stating this statistically supported fact makes it more likely to happen.

It upset me for a long while, quite possibly because being told you have cancer makes you more vulnerable and sensitive to the actions of others. But it has less impact now, a few months down the line.

I do think being an upbeat person can make life more enjoyable. That's not just for those with cancer. However, at certain stages of treatment it is very hard to maintain. I certainly struggled at points on chemotherapy, especially when I felt my mental faculties suffering. As a means of encouragement, I would say that in my case at least I appear to be bouncing back from the chemo side effects both in terms of the reduction of 'chemo-brain' symptoms and general physical fitness and mood.

Breast cancer chemo is not easy but it is totally do-able. Feel free to succumb to negative days, they will pass.

All the best,

Nicola

P.S. I vented a bit in poetry.

If you would like to know anything about my experience, or anything related, please feel free to PM me. Some of the treatment standards may well be different in the States to the UK but I'm sure there is a lot of common ground.
 
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