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Canada: The United States worst friend?

Segnosaur

Penultimate Amazing
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Jan 18, 2002
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Canada, eh?
Ok, I'm not sure how much coverage this got in the U.S., but yesterday our Liberal Prime Minister Jean Cretien officially stated that they would not support the U.S. in a war in Iraq that was not sanctioned by the U.N.

Fair enough. I strongly disagree with the decsion, but I have to live with it (and I don't want this to turn into another "should we attack" debate). Afterwards, however, our Prime Minister made great efforts to stress how he didn't think this would affect Canada/U.S. relations at all.

This got me thinking: Canada has been anything but a good friend to the U.S. for a long time:
- During the 'Trudeau' years, our Prime Minister was more interested in hanging out with Castro and dancing behind the queen's back than improving relations with the U.S.
- Our military is incapable of pulling its own weight, thanks to years of neglect, the U.S. basically provides our defence
- We've had people in the government call Americans "b*stards" and Bush a "moron". (Whether you agree or not, its not a good thing to call the leader of your closest ally a moron)
- Our ambassador to the U.S. made comments on how he wanted Gore to win the election (its generally unacceptable for the govenrment of Canada to show preference during an election in the States, as well as U.S. leaders to show preference to Canadian politicians)
- Our support to the U.S. after 9/11 was lukewarm, with our leader missing some meetings in the U.S. that other world leaders attended
- We begged the U.S. to let us help in Afghanistan (in fact we needed their help to get our troups there), and then when we performed well, we withdrew them even though the U.S. asked us to keep them there (Yes, we did loose some to a 'friendly fire' incident, but other countries have lost soldiers the same way and have not abandoned responsibilities)

Following 9/11, Bush made a speech, where he thanked all of the friends of the U.S. He included many countries (such as the U.K.)but left Canada out. The U.S. later gave the explanation that Canada was such a good friend, they didn't need to mention us explicitely. That was far more than the U.S. should have done.

I personally find the Canadian acts to both treat the U.S. badly, then demanding to be acnowledged as "good friends" to be rather annoying. If our governemt is so interested in standing on its principles over the Iraq situation, then our leader shouldn't be talking about how we'll stay 'good friends'; instead, he should be saying "We're doing what we want, and will take the consequences, even if it harms relations". To do less is to lie.

To the American people, I have a question: Why do you bother to show the Canadian government the curtesy that you do? Frankly, I think our politicians need a good smack upside the head. I'd appreciate it if you did the honours.
 
Maybe it's because we're ignorant?

I thought that Canadian soldiers remain in both Bosnia and Afghanistan? (I thought you were heavily committed in both areas, actually)

Also, your government is not advertising it or anything, but it has been guarding the Straights of Hormuz for us for quite some time now, doing minesweeping duties there. Essentially every American and British vessel that sails into the Persian Gulf passes right through this dangerous area made safer by your navy.

As stretched out as I believe your military is right now, I don't think you could do much more. (Perhaps I'm mistaken) A little political support would be nice, but the US is used to working alongside governments that want their support to be covert ;)

MattJ
 
I understand how you feel.
Why don't you fly to the States and ask for a political asylum?
 
(Yes, we did loose some to a 'friendly fire' incident, but other countries have lost soldiers the same way and have not abandoned responsibilities)
You kind of minimized this little incident. As long as the US military encourages a pill popping cowboy mentality for the operators of our most deadly weapons, I can see why Canada would want to be less involved.
 
It's rather nice having Canadians taking some stands opposed to the US. Gives us 'merkins some mileage when we pretend to be Canadians while abroad. ;)
 
Thanks for starting this thread, Segnosaur.

Louis St. Laurent said that the 20th century belonged to Canada. This was based on our vast resources, and resourcefullness at the time he said it.

Well, it didn't quite happen that way, and in my opinion,we continue to fritter away what potential we may have had.

The current government is just one more example of the myriad of ways we manage to do that.

So, Segno, when us Albertans pull the pin and form our own country, you're welcome to emigrate. I have a spare room you can live in as long as you need.

o fantoche de meia, are you grateful for Shania and Celine Dion too? Or are they the same kind of slap in the face as Tom Green?
 
o fantoche de meia said:
So long as Canada does not recall Pamela Anderson we'll know that we're still on good terms.

Sorry. That one comes with strings attached. You only get to keep her as long as you keep William Shatner.
 
Badger said:

So, Segno, when us Albertans pull the pin and form our own country, you're welcome to emigrate. I have a spare room you can live in as long as you need.

Are you taking BC with you?
 
Current mood is to take the 12 people left in Saskatchewan, the NWT, Yukon, and BC with us.

All the people in BC drive to Calgary or Grande Prairie to shop without having to pay outrageous provincial sales taxes anyway.
 
fishbob said:
As long as the US military encourages a pill popping cowboy mentality for the operators of our most deadly weapons, I can see why Canada would want to be less involved.

Canada's bad relations are the result of their own diplomatic incompetence.

The freindlyfire incident was simply an opportunity for anti-americanism. Canada played a role in the deaths of those soliders due to it's underfunding. Fatigue, overaggressive individuals and unwieldy bureaucracy is to blame.

Without poppin' those pills there would be even more mistakes, more lives and multibillion dollar equipment destroyed. Secondly, the pilots took 5 and 10 mg of Dexadrine. That's nothing, that is barely noticeable save for the increased ability to maintain focus and reactivity over longer periods of inactivity or stress. A cup and a half of coffee gives more of a buzz.
 
This is his third term, isn't it? So over 12 years I guess.

I'm hoping the next vote on our gun control funds leads to a non-confidence vote that forces him to retire before November to let Mr. Martin get on with running the country.

And yes, I think Paul Martin is the best choice for P.M. out of the possible alternatives. The Alliance and Conservatives still are not credible (and I voted Alliance last time) so it will be liberals again. And can anyone imagine Sheila Copps as P.M. and being taken seriously by President Bush?
 
synaesthesia said:


Canada played a role in the deaths of those soliders due to it's underfunding. Fatigue, overaggressive individuals and unwieldy bureaucracy is to blame.


I don't see how you could claim that. They were participating in a live fire exercise that was mistaken by allies for a real battle. Whatever the real reason for the incident, I have no idea how it can be claimed to be Canada's fault.
 
Tony said:
How long has Jean Creten been PM?

"Too long"

Since 1993, actually.

It's spelled "Cretien" (pronounced Kre tea enn) although many of us raging western rednecks go with your associated pronounciation of (Kree tin) to display our unhappiness with him.
 
aerocontrols said:
Maybe it's because we're ignorant?

I thought that Canadian soldiers remain in both Bosnia and Afghanistan? (I thought you were heavily committed in both areas, actually)

Also, your government is not advertising it or anything, but it has been guarding the Straights of Hormuz for us for quite some time now, doing minesweeping duties there. Essentially every American and British vessel that sails into the Persian Gulf passes right through this dangerous area made safer by your navy.

As stretched out as I believe your military is right now, I don't think you could do much more. (Perhaps I'm mistaken) A little political support would be nice, but the US is used to working alongside governments that want their support to be covert ;)
We did have troops in Afghanistan, but we withdrew them. We will be sending them back in as 'peace keepers' in a few months. Not sure about Bosnia, but we probably do have people there. We do do a lot of peace keeping.

As for being 'stretched out', that's the fault of our government spending less per-capita on defence than almost any country in NATO for years.
 
Cleopatra said:
I understand how you feel.
Why don't you fly to the States and ask for a political asylum?
Political asylum? nah...
I have considered moving to the states in the past. (As a software developer I would have been elegible for a visa.) Then the tech bubble burst. Oh well. I'd hate to leave family behind. (Even if it would double my pay.)
 
Canada's OK. Just imagine having an independent Quebec as a neighbor. Just like ze French, only more so.

And don't forget the big-ass pancakes!
 
Badger said:


"Too long"

Since 1993, actually.

It's spelled "Cretien" (pronounced Kre tea enn) although many of us raging western rednecks go with your associated pronounciation of (Kree tin) to display our unhappiness with him.

Uhmmm. It's "Chretien". And I do pronounce it cretin.
 
Gods Advocate, I don't think Mr. Martin is the guy for the job, as he's one of the people who got us where we are.

In fact, IMHO, the Liberals have sampled the shallow end of the gene pool when it comes to any of the candidates. I'd vote for a bag of pucks, or 8 rolls of duct tape before I'd vote for any of them. (then again, I voted Reform, too so I think Stephen Harper is the man)

I echo your hopes about the upcoming gun registry funding vote.
 

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