Can religious effects be homeopathic?

[Kumar]

Hello all,

As you may be knowing, "Homeopathy suggests Natural form of medicine that uses immeasurably small doses of medicines to stimulate the body's own defense and healing process. Homeopathy focuses on bringing the entire body back into homeostasis, or balance". It is a "mass existing system in well distributed people all over the world since long, observed and experianced by these as positive. However science is not clear on working of its immeasurably small doses of medicines.

We also know that various religious and other alternative system's suggestions and prescriptions also work in observations & experiances of "mass & well distributed people since long. How? Skeptic & science community somewhat tell that, this is due to some "placebo effect"--may be by wishfull thinking, belief or self healing effects. Whatever is there, effects are observed & experianced by many but science couldn't yet clear/measure it suitably, so it is yet a "pendening aspect or miss or weakness" of science. Let us not aurge on this. Let us assume that there is an effect of immeasurably small doses of homeopathic remedies AND so,

Can effects of religious & other energy based alternative system's (Eg; Reiki,Accupressure etc.) suggestions & prescriptions be somewhat homeopathic type of effects in immeasurably small doses? Can any ODD dose whether, physically or energetically high, to which we are not commonly exposed, habituated or adapted to, can create " positive/healing or negative/adverse effects due to their ODDNESS to us?

Best wishes.

 

[Mojo]

Let us not aurge on this. Let us assume that there is an effect of immeasurably small doses of homeopathic remedies

We'll assume this if and when you provide some decent evidence for it.

But yes, I suppose "religious effects" and the other non-existent phenomena you mention rely on the same basic principles as homeopathy: reporting bias, post hoc ergo proper hoc, the placebo effect, etc.

 

[Jeff Corey]

... Let us assume that there is an effect of immeasurably small doses of homeopathic remedies...

No, let's not. There is no evidence.

 

[Kumar]

Re: Re: Can religious effects be homeopathic?

Jeff, Placebo effect is also an effect. So effects can't be denied.

Mojo, you agree that all these are "similar effects".

Can't worship of holy images, reading holy books, keeping/increasing beliefs, chanting holy mantras etc. bring some phsycological & physiological effects and effects due to differenciating reflections(Ref: can photo effect?) in us?

 

[Jeff Corey]

Re: Re: Re: Can religious effects be homeopathic?

Jeff, Placebo effect is also an effect. So effects can't be denied...

Yes they can, if the doses have no more effect than a placebo.

 

[Donks]

Hello all,

As you may be knowing, "Homeopathy suggests Natural form of medicine that uses immeasurably small doses of medicines to stimulate the body's own defense and healing process. Homeopathy focuses on bringing the entire body back into homeostasis, or balance".

It doesn't matter what Homeopathy suggests. It matters what Homeopathy does. It does nothing.

It is a "mass existing system in well distributed people all over the world since long, observed and experianced by these as positive.

Appeal to popularity.

However science is not clear on working of its immeasurably small doses of medicines.

Science is clear. Evidence strongly suggests it doesn't work. You are not clear.

We also know that various religious and other alternative system's suggestions and prescriptions also work in observations & experiances of "mass & well distributed people since long. How?

You're finally up to something. Homeopathy is a religious belief. What it is not is a system of medicine. It doesn't heal anyone.

Skeptic & science community somewhat tell that, this is due to some "placebo effect"--may be by wishfull thinking, belief or self healing effects.

I see that you still don't understand what the placebo effect is. You're right on the wishfull thinking part, but you don't understand the coincidental recovery part. That means a recovery that happens at the same time, without any causal relationship. So if you take placebos and at the same time you heal from an illness it is not because of the placebos. You would have healed without them.

Whatever is there, effects are observed & experianced by many but science couldn't yet clear/measure it suitably, so it is yet a "pendening aspect or miss or weakness" of science.

No, it is not. No matter how often you repeat this mantra, it won't suddenly become true.

Let us not aurge on this. Let us assume that there is an effect of immeasurably small doses of homeopathic remedies AND so,

Let us assume no such thing.

Can effects of religious & other energy based alternative system's (Eg; Reiki,Accupressure etc.) suggestions & prescriptions be somewhat homeopathic type of effects in immeasurably small doses?

Reiki has no effects, so it's the same as homeopathy.

Can any ODD dose whether, physically or energetically high, to which we are not commonly exposed, habituated or adapted to, can create " positive/healing or negative/adverse effects due to their ODDNESS to us?

What is ODD? If you're going to use acronyms you need to define them first.

 

[Kumar]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Can religious effects be homeopathic?

Yes they can, if the doses have no more effect than a placebo.

Jeff, I have also added following question to my previous post:-

Can't worship of holy images, reading holy books, keeping/increasing beliefs, chanting holy mantras etc. bring some phsycological & physiological effects and effects due to differenciating reflections(Ref: can photo effect?) in us?

To add;

If yes, will those effects be specific to specific image or specific book reading/mantra etc?

 

[Mojo]

As you may be knowing, "Homeopathy suggests Natural form of medicine ...

Incidentally, Kumar, what is "natural" about successive dilutions and succussions? Does this occur in nature?

 

[Mojo]

Re: Re: Re: Can religious effects be homeopathic?

Mojo, you agree that all these are "similar effects".

No. I agree that they are similar, in that they have no real effects at all. If you want me to agree that they have actual effects you are going to have to provide some evidence to support this.

Can't worship of holy images, reading holy books, keeping/increasing beliefs, chanting holy mantras etc. bring some phsycological & physiological effects and effects due to differenciating reflections(Ref: can photo effect?) in us?

No more than a placebo. And try to remember what you've been told about placebos. They are not a real treatment, they contain no remedy of any sort. They are a sham treatment. So if a treatment works no better than placebo, it means it doesn't work at all.

How would you describe a treatment that's no better than a sham?

 

[Kumar]

Re: Re: Can religious effects be homeopathic?

It doesn't matter what Homeopathy suggests. It matters what Homeopathy does. It does nothing.

Appeal to popularity.

Science is clear. Evidence strongly suggests it doesn't work. You are not clear.

Science may be yet clear, but not yet "absolute". So anything can still be possible.

You're finally up to something. Homeopathy is a religious belief. What it is not is a system of medicine. It doesn't heal anyone.

I don't deny 'moulding/conversion of energy/force in different forms in different system'-so all energy based systems/Energy medicines can have some resmblence with each other.

I see that you still don't understand what the placebo effect is. You're right on the wishfull thinking part, but you don't understand the coincidental recovery part. That means a recovery that happens at the same time, without any causal relationship. So if you take placebos and at the same time you heal from an illness it is not because of the placebos. You would have healed without them.

I am just bothered about that these effects--psychlogically or physiologically, placebo or otherwise, may 'yet be an unknown concept'.

No, it is not. No matter how often you repeat this mantra, it won't suddenly become true.

Let us assume no such thing.

Reiki has no effects, so it's the same as homeopathy.

What is ODD? If you're going to use acronyms you need to define them first.

At one place you agree on placebo(may be everything wich is yet unknown/not measurable in absolute sense) whereas don't agree on that all these effects. I think you leave everything which is 'yet pending' on placebo/God(as most leave). Will we not get specific placebo effects by practicing specific modality?

There can be ODDS on both higher & lower sides. Shorter the wave length higher can be the energy--so this can be ODD. Lower doses stimulate physiological actions wheras higher can discourage it, can also explain ODD's effect. Taste/sensation effects & physical intake effects can also tell something about ODDs. Just Sensing but not taking can also produce some ODD effects.....

 

[Jeff Corey]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can religious effects be homeopathic?

...to differenciating reflections(Ref: can photo effect?) in us?

I have no idea what this means. Do you?

 

[Kumar]

Re: Re: Can religious effects be homeopathic?

Incidentally, Kumar, what is "natural" about successive dilutions and succussions? Does this occur in nature?

Yes, these should be regularily occuring in nature, by which we may be getting "self healing" effects? Don't reflection/just sensing effects etc. occur in nature?

 

[Donks]

Re: Re: Re: Can religious effects be homeopathic?

Science may be yet clear, but not yet "absolute". So anything can still be possible.

Appeal to ignorance.

I don't deny 'moulding/conversion of energy/force in different forms in different system'-so all energy based systems/Energy medicines can have some resmblence with each other.

Meaningless drivel.

I am just bothered about that these effects--psychlogically or physiologically, placebo or otherwise, may 'yet be an unknown concept'.

Bothered as you may be, the placebo effect is not an unknown concept. It is a known concept in science. You just don'r bother to understand it.

At one place you agree on placebo(may be everything wich is yet unknown/not measurable in absolute sense) whereas don't agree on that all these effects. I think you leave everything which is 'yet pending' on placebo/God(as most leave). Will we not get specific placebo effects by practicing specific modality?

You don't undestant the placebo effect. You don't know what is pending or not. There's no such thing as a specific placebo effect.

There can be ODDS on both higher & lower sides. Shorter the wave length higher can be the energy--so this can be ODD. Lower doses stimulate physiological actions wheras higher can discourage it, can also explain ODD's effect. Taste/sensation effects & physical intake effects can also tell something about ODDs. Just Sensing but not taking can also produce some ODD effects.....

You're still not defining your new acronym "ODD" so this is worthless drivel. And I can see this paragraph is just filled with all your pet theories that have already been shown to be wrong in the Science forum. Just because you move to the religion forum it doesn't mean we are back to square one, whch in your case is still at square one.

 

[Mojo]

Re: Re: Re: Can religious effects be homeopathic?

At one place you agree on placebo(may be everything wich is yet unknown/not measurable in absolute sense)

No, the placebo effect is not "unknown." It is a consistent, observed effect: if a patient thinks they have received an effective treatment, they will feel better even if the treatment was a sham.

 

[Mojo]

Re: Re: Re: Can religious effects be homeopathic?

Yes, these should be regularily occuring in nature, by which we may be getting "self healing" effects?

So, even if homeopathy worked (it doesn't) why would homeopathic treatment ever be necessary? According to what you've just posted here, we should be constantly surrounded by potentised remedies. The water we drink every day should be a highly potentised remedy for any condition imaginable.

 

[Kumar]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can religious effects be homeopathic?

I have no idea what this means. Do you?

It means, you are not following me/my posts completely. Probably, if anyone can explain. I consider that every substance reflects colours in light & we sense those colour & their figures & recognize same. Accordingly, we react & interact accordingly & specifically--so these are effects. We are also getting "sensations effects" which will be "without" physical ingestions" or somewhat energetic.

 

[Mojo]

Re: Re: Can religious effects be homeopathic?

What is ODD?

Obstinately Deluded Drivel?

 

[Kumar]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Can religious effects be homeopathic?

So, even if homeopathy worked (it doesn't) why would homeopathic treatment ever be necessary? According to what you've just posted here, we should be constantly surrounded by potentised remedies. The water we drink every day should be a highly potentised remedy for any condition imaginable.

But there can be some specific and common exposures to us? We may not get much effects by taking any food but may get specific effects by taking same amount of any bio-chemical in that, individualy. Biochemicals in food may have some balancing routine effect, which may be individual in individual bio-chemical.

In nature, we may be having different homeopathic type potencies mixed as well as seprate which can be both common & bit rare--so rare effects.

 

[Zep]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can religious effects be homeopathic?

But there can be some specific and common exposures to us? We may not get much effects by taking any food but may get specific effects by taking same amount of any bio-chemical in that, individualy. Biochemicals in food may have some balancing routine effect, which may be individual in individual bio-chemical.

In nature, we may be having different homeopathic type potencies mixed as well as seprate which can be both common & bit rare--so rare effects.

Gibbering again.

I suspect there's something in HIS water - too much cow urine, perhaps? Or is that bull ◊◊◊◊.

 

[Mojo]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can religious effects be homeopathic?

In nature, we may be having different homeopathic type potencies mixed as well as seprate which can be both common & bit rare--so rare effects.

If homeopathic dilutions and succussions occured in nature, their results would certainly not be rare, given that it is claimed that the more dilute a remedy is the more powerful. They would be everywhere, at almost infinite potency, having been diluted and succussed for as long as liquid water has existed on Earth.