Can dailykos founder help the 911 Truth Movement?

metamars

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I often read dailykos.com, which is a (mostly) progressive, Democratic blog, which has made a real impact in modern politics.

The head honcho of dailykos.com, Markos Moulitsas, has come out with a new book called Taking on the System - Rules for Radical Change in a Digital Era. I haven't read the book (it actually comes out tomorrow), but IMO you have to pay attention to a book by somebody like Moulitsas, on such a subject, if you're interested in political change in the US. My assumption is that the book will be of value to activists of all stripes and political orientations, whose focus is not aligned with whatever is the prevailing direction in Washington, D.C. .

One thing I really appreciate about Moulitsas is that he completely gets that you have to change the elected representatives who are, after all, the gatekeepers of so much of real power, in the US, to the extent of using his web site to channel fund raising to particular, sympathetic candidates. I personally have little patience for begging any elected representative to do the right thing, over and over again, when they show no indication of having any sympathy for my cause, whatsoever. My attitude is like that of Donald Trump - "You're fired!"; except, of course, in a democracy you need to get lots of fellow voters to help you achieve that.

I have been fascinated, critical, as well as dismayed by how little activism seems to achieve in modern US society, at least since the 1960's. 911 activism really isn't much different, though of course it's been additionally hampered by being a "high strangeness" type of issue. Everybody just knows, don't they, that modern democratic governments would never contemplate and coverup the slaughter of it's own citizens, right? So, besides the ossification and pushback inherent in a system that, presumably, works well for somebody, even at the expense of populist causes, there's the additional incredulity factor. Additionally, it's been hampered by the inability to obtain primary evidence, which is tightly held by the government - when it hasn't already destroyed it. (Consider the contrast with an environmental activist who want to get the government to subsidize, via tax credits, solar panels. The efficiency and cost information is readily available. Also, I expect there's reams of data, perhaps not easily analyzed, but nevertheless available, which would additionally allow precise comparison of environmental impact.)

A couple of reviews of the book are linked to here, but the second review, in particular, caught my eye because of this:

It wasn't until Rod Parsley's shop went after me that I really got it, though. Because the moment I tried to figure out how to respond to his bullying, I reached for Taking On The System to help me devise a strategy.

If this really is a useful cookbook for progressive Democrats, then there should be value for activists in general, and 911 activists, in particular.

P.S.: I'm aware that dailykos, itself, isn't friendly to 911 Truth
 
I'm no fan of Democrats and far less a fan of DailyKos, but what works for activism over an idealology or for societal changes might not play as well for fairy tales...










...as much as I'd LOVE to make anything resembling a legitimate analogy between the two. :D
 
911 activism really isn't much different, though of course it's been additionally hampered by being a "high strangeness" type of issue.

The only thing that has hampered 9/11 activism are the highly strange activists, who haven't got a damn thing right in seven years.
 
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The only thing that's has hampered 9/11 activism are the highly strange activists, who haven't got a damn thing right in seven years.


Well, not having any evidence whatsoever to support their claims has probably hampered it a little too. :p
 
You might want to look into the political activism that was critical in bringing down Apartheid. It was very much the American people and not the American government that led that movement. The late 80s is not so long ago.

The difference between that movement and 9/11 truth is pretty clear. Frankly, 9/11 truth is closer to silliness like the white power movement than any real activism. From the leaders down to the followers, and ending with their ideas.
 
You might want to look into the political activism that was critical in bringing down Apartheid. It was very much the American people and not the American government that led that movement. The late 80s is not so long ago.

???

Perhaps you mean "South African" and not "American"?
 
Nope, I meant American. The British and American governments were propping up the white minority government by picking and choosing which trade embargoes they followed. Read some of the moronic things that Reagan said about the Apartheid system for a good laugh (he actually suggested that Americans could learn from South African race relations, how this guy is considered a great president escapes me). In any case, it was the grass roots movement in the US that forced the government to change its "constructive engagement" policy with South Africa, bringing Apartheid to an end within a couple of years.
 
Nope, I meant American. The British and American governments were propping up the white minority government by picking and choosing which trade embargoes they followed. Read some of the moronic things that Reagan said about the Apartheid system for a good laugh (he actually suggested that Americans could learn from South African race relations, how this guy is considered a great president escapes me). In any case, it was the grass roots movement in the US that forced the government to change its "constructive engagement" policy with South Africa, bringing Apartheid to an end within a couple of years.

Gotcha. That's why I asked for clarification - thanks for providing it.:)
 
Nope, I meant American. The British and American governments were propping up the white minority government by picking and choosing which trade embargoes they followed. Read some of the moronic things that Reagan said about the Apartheid system for a good laugh (he actually suggested that Americans could learn from South African race relations, how this guy is considered a great president escapes me). In any case, it was the grass roots movement in the US that forced the government to change its "constructive engagement" policy with South Africa, bringing Apartheid to an end within a couple of years.

Yes, and the US won WW2 single handedly too. :rolleyes:
 
Yes, the Daily Kos founder can help 9/11 Truthers.

The first thing he has done to help them, as you noted, is BAN THEM FROM SPREADING THEIR IDIOCY ON HIS SITE. This is intended to make them think about dropping their foolishness once and for all.

And once they do, they can then become actual contributors to the causes Markos wants advanced, instead of impediments.
 
I do believe I would roll my eyes too if I said something that silly.
What you said sounded like the activism of American citizens was (almost) solely responsible for bringing down apartheid, and PhantomWolf was calling you on that. The rest of the world had a huge part in it.

I read between the lines, and interpreted it to mean that grassroots activism in America overshadowed governmental inaction, so was a counter-example to the OP. Given your wording, though, I was being charitable.
 
I think most people will agree that it was grassroots activism that eventually got the Reagan Administration to divest from South Africa. How much this disinvestment impacted the eventual end of aparthied is debatable.

Whether it was the United States civil rights movement or disvestment from South Africa, it was overwhelming pressure from a public that saw what the government was doing was wrong and demanded change. The 9/11 truth movement doesn't seem to understand that there is no indignant outcry from the American public on this subject. Instead of accepting this fact and moving on, they call the masses "sheeple" and stupid...no way to gain support.
 
What you said sounded like the activism of American citizens was (almost) solely responsible for bringing down apartheid, and PhantomWolf was calling you on that. The rest of the world had a huge part in it.

I read between the lines, and interpreted it to mean that grassroots activism in America overshadowed governmental inaction, so was a counter-example to the OP. Given your wording, though, I was being charitable.

Read between the lines? I was pretty clear about the importance of American activism on Apartheid and that it countered his argument that there was no effective political activism after the 1960s. This is one of those rare cases where the American involvement was critical.

You could try presenting a counter-argument, other than a vague assertion that the rest of the world had a huge part. They did not. Plenty of examples of that, from the UN sanctions to the Commonwealth expulsion. No real action was taken in South Africa until the American Congress was forced to take a stand. It will be more work than simply trying to belittle me to be sure, but more effective in the long run.


I do find it a little funny, most people think I am generally too hard on the US. Normally I would tear up anyone who said something silly like "the US won WWII" (or the Cold War for that matter). And frankly, I can only name a couple of cases in which I found historical American motives admirable (Berlin Air Drop is the only other that leaps to mind). But I have to give the devil his due.
 
I think most people will agree that it was grassroots activism that eventually got the Reagan Administration to divest from South Africa. How much this disinvestment impacted the eventual end of aparthied is debatable.

Whether it was the United States civil rights movement or disvestment from South Africa, it was overwhelming pressure from a public that saw what the government was doing was wrong and demanded change. The 9/11 truth movement doesn't seem to understand that there is no indignant outcry from the American public on this subject. Instead of accepting this fact and moving on, they call the masses "sheeple" and stupid...no way to gain support.


I would be interested in any other international factors you believe brought about the swift change. I have yet to find anyone who finds it debatable (among historians). Tutu and Mandela have both cited the American disinvestment as pivotal.
 
For? They really haven't said anything that would warrant it. But I don't want to derail the thread, I just found the replies a little childish in their thinly veiled attacks on me as opposed to actually disproving anything I wrote. Worthy of truthers, but not what I expect from JREFers (at least they didn't use LOL).
 
Well, not having any evidence whatsoever to support their claims has probably hampered it a little too. :p
Oh, metamars already explained that:
Additionally, it's been hampered by the inability to obtain primary evidence, which is tightly held by the government - when it hasn't already destroyed it.
Once again, lack of evidence is itself evidence of a coverup!
 

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