Calling all Conservatives.

[TillEulenspiegel]

Calling all true Conservatives!

The police in NY city have literally thrown out a dragnet on people standing on the sidewalk by the Republican convention site, that detained without charges many people who either following police orders to disperse and innocent bystanders coming to or leaving work as well as gawkers. None of this appears in the "mainstream" press except as an aside

NOW IS THE TIME for all liberty loving , constitutional stalwarts who describe themselves as Conservative to rise off their hands and do something about the erosion of our personal liberties, the most sacrosanct being freedom of speech and peaceful assembly.. The most stalwart of the defenders of those rights has been historically the Conservatives altho many who define themselves as such are mear shells. Constitutional literalists must rise up and make their voices heard. . We do not have a King or a monarchy. WE are a republic where the laws apply to all from janitor to president. Nixon and Clinton found that out too late. Rise up let Your voices be heard , protest this attempted usurpation of our liberties , this insidious attempt to anoint a president as a monarch. Many complain about the practice of legislation from the bench.....this is surely more dangerous as it is government by fiet..

This Whitehouse wants to bypass the constitutional balance of the congress, judiciary and executive branches of government. The congress is the direct representation of our voice, tempered by the courts. This executive seeks to undercut the balance of powers.

I do not blame President Bush personally rather the climate he has impressioned on society. He is not responsible personally for Git MO nor Abu Garub Nor the netting and illegal arbitrary detention of hundreds of people in a bus terminal in NY.. Rather it is the mindset of the bright people around him who believe that the constitution does not apply to them and their plans. The law must apply to all or none. E-Mail the Whitehouse, VP Cheny, Your senator and congressional Representative You may disagree with my analise's but the facts are true. This is not Nazi Germany in '38 or USSR in 20-80' This Is MY America . The America that cost my family many deaths and a Father who survived , an America that stands like a beacon on a stormy night. Do not let Your affinity for one man twist Your judgment. Stand up for the true Conservative values .............. or all is lost


Please excuse the flowery rhetoric , but I meant this as an impassioned plea not a diatribe to change anyones point of view , but to alert all who do not see what is happening in America.

 

[Nie Trink Wasser]

transparent and phony.

 

[Dorian Gray]

Wow, both of you described your values and ideals. I like that.

I also like how demonstrators managed to get into the convention ANYWAY - two of them.

The point is, if Bush can't keep his own CONVENTION secure, how the hell can he keep the United States secure? Especially since for three years he has allowed Osama bin Laden to go free, reduced the troops in Afghanistan, reduced the personnel looking for him, and literally said 'We're not too worried about him'.

 

[American]

"True" conservatives?

So-- you finally admit "Conservative = Good"?

And after 40 years of bashing our ideals, the left now claims to represent us better than the lifelong studies of men who defined them?



EAT. ◊◊◊◊.

 

[csense]

...demonstrators managed to get into the convention...

The point is, if Bush can't keep his own CONVENTION secure, how the hell can he keep the United States secure?

Well, it would certainly help if he, or shall I say we, had the assistance of our fellow citizens.

That said, I second what the poster immediately prior, stated in uppercase script

 

[Chaos]

Till Eulenspiegel
Oh, boy... reading the replies to your OP, I can only say: with friends like these, who needs enemies?

That said - I am neither American nor a conservative, but I agree with your OP, for whatever it´s worth.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Chaos,
Thanks , but the responders are trolls who serve no purpose but to annoy people with their "mind" vomit.
I was specifically addressing people like Rand fan, Mycroft, Silicon, Atlas and others who have a mind worthy of expression.

The values expressed in my OP are indeed the cornerstone of Conservative thought, so all the mental deficients that scrawl EAT whatever on this board are as valuable in their contribution as any 12 yr old with a can of spray paint.

So do the Conservitives have anything to express? I am stunned that this is happining in America , 2004 Anyone else?

 

[merphie]

Wow, both of you described your values and ideals. I like that.

I also like how demonstrators managed to get into the convention ANYWAY - two of them.

The point is, if Bush can't keep his own CONVENTION secure, how the hell can he keep the United States secure? Especially since for three years he has allowed Osama bin Laden to go free, reduced the troops in Afghanistan, reduced the personnel looking for him, and literally said 'We're not too worried about him'.

It can be secure if we throw out things like free speech or search and seizure. Just because some hot heads and democrats don't have the courtest to hold protest while the convention is going on.

So you are you saying our army is incompetint since out army has not captured Bin Laden?

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Hate to bump my own post , but I haven't heard from the more erudite posters about their view on basically what amounts to a violation of the constitution in Re freedom of speech, right to peaceful assembly and ( trickiest ) Prior restraint.

I want to hear all the self described Conservators condemn the outrageous use of force by the city of NY.

If you do not address this most primal issue of free speech then you are nothing but hypocrites.

 

[American]

Hate to bump my own post , but I haven't heard from the more erudite posters about their view on basically what amounts to a violation of the constitution in Re freedom of speech, right to peaceful assembly and ( trickiest ) Prior restraint.

I want to hear all the self described Conservators condemn the outrageous use of force by the city of NY.

If you do not address this most primal issue of free speech then you are nothing but hypocrites.

 

[shanek]

The police in NY city have literally thrown out a dragnet on people standing on the sidewalk by the Republican convention site,

They LITERALLY threw out a dragnet? LITERALLY? Meaning, they actually took a net used for catching fish or small game and threw it out over the crowd???

Gonna hafta see a reference for that...

 

[Mycroft]

Chaos,
Thanks , but the responders are trolls who serve no purpose but to annoy people with their "mind" vomit.
I was specifically addressing people like Rand fan, Mycroft, Silicon, Atlas and others who have a mind worthy of expression.

Thank you for the compliment, but you know I'm a Democrat, don't you? I realize I don't talk much on domestic politics in these forums, but I really am left of center, if not very much.

I confess I haven't heard much on this specific issue, but going off your description (and only because you asked) I will make the following observations:

1) It's not realistic to expect a police officer to know everyones intentions all the time. It's not practical for a police officer to assume the best until proven otherwise. His job is to protect the public safety, and sometimes that means inconveniencing people. In short, he does have the right to stop you, detain you, even take you to the station even when you've done nothing wrong.

2) If I remember my civics class, constitutionally, the police have the right to hold you without charge for 24 hours.

3) If this is happening in New York, that means the city of New York is in charge of the police. It may be the Republican National Convention, but it's the city government that's setting policy here, not the Republicans.

4) New York is traditionally a Democratic state.

5) The Mayor of New York City is Michael Bloomberg. He's a lifelong Democrat. In the last election he ran as a Republican, but it's said he did so to avoid the crowded field among the Democrats. In local elections, often party affiliations are less important than in national elections.

In summary, if you don't like these events I understand that. At the same time, if you believe it to be an indictment of Republicans or conservatism, I don't really see that you have any case to make.

 

[billydkid]

Calling all true Conservatives!

The police in NY city have literally thrown out a dragnet on people standing on the sidewalk by the Republican convention site, that detained without charges many people who either following police orders to disperse and innocent bystanders coming to or leaving work as well as gawkers. None of this appears in the "mainstream" press except as an aside

NOW IS THE TIME for all liberty loving , constitutional stalwarts who describe themselves as Conservative to rise off their hands and do something about the erosion of our personal liberties, the most sacrosanct being freedom of speech and peaceful assembly.. The most stalwart of the defenders of those rights has been historically the Conservatives altho many who define themselves as such are mear shells. Constitutional literalists must rise up and make their voices heard. . We do not have a King or a monarchy. WE are a republic where the laws apply to all from janitor to president. Nixon and Clinton found that out too late. Rise up let Your voices be heard , protest this attempted usurpation of our liberties , this insidious attempt to anoint a president as a monarch. Many complain about the practice of legislation from the bench.....this is surely more dangerous as it is government by fiet..

This Whitehouse wants to bypass the constitutional balance of the congress, judiciary and executive branches of government. The congress is the direct representation of our voice, tempered by the courts. This executive seeks to undercut the balance of powers.

I do not blame President Bush personally rather the climate he has impressioned on society. He is not responsible personally for Git MO nor Abu Garub Nor the netting and illegal arbitrary detention of hundreds of people in a bus terminal in NY.. Rather it is the mindset of the bright people around him who believe that the constitution does not apply to them and their plans. The law must apply to all or none. E-Mail the Whitehouse, VP Cheny, Your senator and congressional Representative You may disagree with my analise's but the facts are true. This is not Nazi Germany in '38 or USSR in 20-80' This Is MY America . The America that cost my family many deaths and a Father who survived , an America that stands like a beacon on a stormy night. Do not let Your affinity for one man twist Your judgment. Stand up for the true Conservative values .............. or all is lost


Please excuse the flowery rhetoric , but I meant this as an impassioned plea not a diatribe to change anyones point of view , but to alert all who do not see what is happening in America.

Authentic conservatism has been dead in this country for a very long time. It was hijacked by right wing reactionaries. Neither the left nor the right really believe in the constitution or in limited government. Neither really has much respect for personal liberty. The term conservative has come to right wing statist just as liberal has come to me left wing statist. The closest you will get to both geniune conservatism and liberalism is libertarianism. Look at virtually every "conservative" politician since Goldwater. They have all been advocates of authoritarianism. They have all been against free expression of any sort they find distasteful. The same has been pretty much true of liberals too.

On the one hand you have political correctness and on the other you have "traditional values". Personally, I believe in traditional values. I do not, however, expect my government to enforce those values. Conservatives have largely gotten a bad name in this country and not undeservedly so. Likewise, the left has become known for wanting to enforce their version of social engineering on the country.

I believe truly that geniune conservatives, as you describe, and genuine liberals have very much more in common than they have difference. Likewise, the conservative right and the liberal left are virtually identical in character, but simpy have different particular agendas.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Sorry Shanek , but the news coming from NY is scarce as the major advertisers don't want to dilute their message or alienate their constituency. Do You remember the conflagration about Proctor and Gambles logo? Or Nabisco? Where the unclean mass adopted an position that was at odds with reality ?


I hope you say yes. People are prone to adopt specious positions to re-enforce their world view.

http://www.constitutioncenter.org/e...theClassroom/ConstitutionNewswire/11879.shtml

Edit spelnbfageing

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Re: Re: Calling all Conservatives.

Wow Billy an exact and poignant a judgment if I ever have heard one.

Kudos.

 

[Mycroft]

Sorry Shanek , but the news coming from NY is scarce as the major advertisers don't want to dilute their message or alienate their constituency. Do You remember the conflagration about Proctor and Gambles logo? Or Nabisco? Where the unclean mass adopted an position that was at odds with reality ?

I don't remember Nabisco, but IIRC, the P&G thing was started by loony Amway reps as a way to recruit people.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Thank you for the compliment, but you know I'm a Democrat, don't you? I realize I don't talk much on domestic politics in these forums, but I really am left of center, if not very much.

I don't know your political affiliation , but You seem to be Conservative in nature ........ not republican/democrat...but ( as i posted in another thread) a liberal , formally known as a centrist.

I confess I haven't heard much on this specific issue, but going off your description (and only because you asked) I will make the following observations:

1) It's not realistic to expect a police officer to know everyones intentions all the time. It's not practical for a police officer to assume the best until proven otherwise. His job is to protect the public safety, and sometimes that means inconveniencing people. In short, he does have the right to stop you, detain you, even take you to the station even when you've done nothing wrong.

The method used was not probable cause but rather a non-constitutional "round-up" based on mass arrest not any particular violation by any particular individual.

2) If I remember my civics class, constitutionally, the police have the right to hold you without charge for 24 hours.

Many were held for 40+ hours with no access to legal representation. That in and itself is against the law

3) If this is happening in New York, that means the city of New York is in charge of the police. It may be the Republican National Convention, but it's the city government that's setting policy here, not the Republicans.

I did not blame the republican party

4) New York is traditionally a Democratic state.

That is a non-sequiter

5) The Mayor of New York City is Michael Bloomberg. He's a lifelong Democrat. In the last election he ran as a Republican, but it's said he did so to avoid the crowded field among the Democrats. In local elections, often party affiliations are less important than in national elections.

See above.

In summary, if you don't like these events I understand that. At the same time, if you believe it to be an indictment of Republicans or conservatism, I don't really see that you have any case to make. ]

No indictment just a call to alert people of conscience especially the traditional knights of the rights of expression to protect our constitutional rights.

 

[Mycroft]

I did not blame the republican party

Ah, so your concern is a more general concern for the state of our union.

Why don't you post some source material?

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

I do have one link Mycroft in a previous post in this thread . The story will expose itself after the mainstream media is bludgeoned by their own editorializing and must cover the subject > read patronage to megacorps< by shear gravitus .

Meanwhile I wait for justification of the " police riot" ( gotta love '68) in NY by those staunch defenders of the faith.

 

[peptoabysmal]

Re: Re: Calling all Conservatives.

Authentic conservatism has been dead in this country for a very long time. It was hijacked by right wing reactionaries. Neither the left nor the right really believe in the constitution or in limited government. Neither really has much respect for personal liberty. The term conservative has come to right wing statist just as liberal has come to me left wing statist. The closest you will get to both geniune conservatism and liberalism is libertarianism. Look at virtually every "conservative" politician since Goldwater. They have all been advocates of authoritarianism. They have all been against free expression of any sort they find distasteful. The same has been pretty much true of liberals too.

On the one hand you have political correctness and on the other you have "traditional values". Personally, I believe in traditional values. I do not, however, expect my government to enforce those values. Conservatives have largely gotten a bad name in this country and not undeservedly so. Likewise, the left has become known for wanting to enforce their version of social engineering on the country.

I believe truly that geniune conservatives, as you describe, and genuine liberals have very much more in common than they have difference. Likewise, the conservative right and the liberal left are virtually identical in character, but simpy have different particular agendas.

I agree and well said BTW...