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Buddhism For Dummies ??????

Stout

Philosopher
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
6,044
OK...after smashing my head repeatedly against my keyboard while devoting just under two weeks to reading and trying to understand a thread here in R&P ( the Subjectivity and Science one ) I've decided that it's time to come to grips with, and try to develop a basic understanding of Buddhism.

The problems I've had so far have revolved around Buddhists talking in esoteric language that have me opening multiple tabs in my browser to search out the meanings of this language, and the result is m well, confusion.

And then there's the "personal interpretation" aspect that seems to accompany individual Buddhists. Take Karma for example. Is Karma something that we accrue in this life, or the next ?

Now I'm not a woo kind of guy, and so far, I've taken Buddhism to be strictly a philosophy with a religious, or spiritual component that western, practitioners are trying to downplay, so I'm not really all that interested in the whole idea of rebirth, reincarnation, etc, more in Buddhism as a workable philosophy to consider when making daily decisions.

So I guess my questions are more to do with the four noble truths, and the eightfold path from a modern, western perspective. For instance, someone's telling me that the first truth....All life is suffering...is an inaccurate translation of the word "dukka", that the Buddha wasn't talking about "suffering" as we think of the concept today.

I've pretty much given up the idea of doing my own research online, due to the reasons I cited above and I'm considering actually purchasing a book on the topic.

http://www.windhorsepublications.com/CartV2/Details.asp?ProductID=321

Has anyone else read this ? And if so, what is your take on it ? I'm drawn to the easy to read, can be understood by anyone sales pitch but if it's not a reliable reference to western Buddhism, I really don't want to waste my time with it.
 
You won't get coherent responses to your queries, because there are many varieties of Buddhism. Some are religious, some are not. Some are superstitous, some are not.

My own suggestion would be to find a readable translation of the Dhammapada (sp?) and see what you think.
 
Thanks Complexity....

I googled the Dhammapada...and I'll keep my eyes open for a readable translation. I kind of suspect that it might be over my newbie head, at this stage of the game. I found the Wiki entry on the Dhammapada, and I'll sift through the references there later on today.

I've been told that I should focus more on the four noble truths and the eightfold path to start with and I've been reading this.

http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/fourtruths.html

There's a link to the eightfold path in paragraph 4

Of course, the problem's come with the various ways I can interpret different sentences. Like the idea of freeing ones self from desire. OK, maybe putting a 60 inch plasma that I can ill afford, on my credit card on a whim isn't the brightest ideas, but, if someone were to try and convince me that my desire for a warm coat on a cold day was philosophically wrong...then we'd have an argument.

I was hoping to stay with the western interpretation of Buddhism. I've been to Thailand a couple of times, and tried to explore Buddhism there, but that was as confusing as reading online. It just seemed there were too many inconsistencies, many of them involving belief in spirits, and contradictions.

For example...treatment of animals. I found the Thai Buddhists to have a complete disregard for cats and dogs, and when I asked Thai people why this was so, I got an explanation that animals were "bad spirits" who'd incurred bad karma in a previous life. OK..I say, but when I ask about how this fits in with the idea of compassion for all living things...I just got a shrug.
 
For a very good look at what one practicing Buddhist believes, go to the Members List and look up Elohim on this board. You can read his posts without bothering with all the yrreg nonsense, and read the articles in his links. They are all excellent and easy to understand. He does a very good job at defining his terms without getting all esoteric in the process.
 
Thanks Hokulele....Elohim has officially been stalked, and I've subscribed to 17 new threads.
 
The best introduction to basic Buddhism can be found at www.4truths.com - The Four Noble Truths is the core of the teachings of the historical Buddha.

I also reccomend reading the Dhammapada, it's a sort of 'Best of Buddha' text, and not very difficult to read at all.

Of course, both these are the core of Theravada Buddhism - not the biggest denomination, but the only one who actually dates back to Buddha himself, and the one most sceptical, non-religious westerners feel attracted to, because of the lack of gods and other supernatural elements.

I'm a Theravada Buddhist myself.

ETA: Reading the Yrreg threads might actually help understand a bit, if you can ignore the Yrreg parts.
 
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I was hoping to stay with the western interpretation of Buddhism. I've been to Thailand a couple of times, and tried to explore Buddhism there, but that was as confusing as reading online. It just seemed there were too many inconsistencies, many of them involving belief in spirits, and contradictions.

For example...treatment of animals. I found the Thai Buddhists to have a complete disregard for cats and dogs, and when I asked Thai people why this was so, I got an explanation that animals were "bad spirits" who'd incurred bad karma in a previous life. OK..I say, but when I ask about how this fits in with the idea of compassion for all living things...I just got a shrug.

You have to differentiate Buddhism from local customs, superstitions and beliefs, although that is a very difficult task at times.
 
The Buddha did not leave any writting behind because he didn't want this to happen, i.e. create more confusion. The core teaching of the Buddha is very simple, and very wise at the same time. Thoughts, attachment and feelings prevent you from being in peace, what you are doing now is the ultimate irony. You are trying to understand the uncomprehensible.

I don't want to fill you with more books, links and quotes, but search for U.G. Krishnamurti, he just died but his interviews helped me a lot to understand that buddhists also fall in the trap. He never wrote a book, he was against gurus.
 
Thanks Ryokan...I'm liking your links description of the first noble truth when compared to the one I posted that says "life means suffering"

I figure I'm going to buy a hardcopy version of the Dhammapada, rather than deal with online translations. Apathia's link looks like it will fill the bill and I'll try and track down a local source for it tomorrow.

Would, or could Theravada Buddhism be referred to as "pure" Buddhism? I'm aware of the effects of local "interpretations" and I've heard people refer to Thai Buddhism as not being "real" Buddhism.

Luzz...I tend to agree. So far ( in my two days of research ) Buddhism does seem pretty straightforward and simple, really, but then curveballs come flying in, like your second sentence, the one that says I'm trying to understand the incomprehensible.....

Maybe...but I can at least try.:)
 
I agree - some of the posts in yrreg-started threads are very good if you can stomach the posts by yrreg. He is quite malevolent about Buddhism.
 
Buddhism is for dummies. Anyway, buddhism is just metaphysical hogwash. Most of the ideas are primitive, like reincarnation and enlightenment. Enlightenment for example just seems like woo and meditation is overrated.

Buddhist also have the delusion their not wasting their time. The four noble truths for example are just about morality. Which, is trivial. Now you would think Buddha would write about the theory of everything, or prove something mathematically improtant however, like most religions it just a self help programme with morality lesson.

Also, the dalai lama is a hypocrite, watch Penn and Teller holier than thou episode. The dalai lama was given money from the CIA to train terriorist to take back Tibet.
 
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OK...after smashing my head repeatedly against my keyboard while devoting just under two weeks to reading and trying to understand a thread here in R&P ( the Subjectivity and Science one ) I've decided that it's time to come to grips with, and try to develop a basic understanding of Buddhism.

The problems I've had so far have revolved around Buddhists talking in esoteric language that have me opening multiple tabs in my browser to search out the meanings of this language, and the result is m well, confusion.

And then there's the "personal interpretation" aspect that seems to accompany individual Buddhists. Take Karma for example. Is Karma something that we accrue in this life, or the next ?

Now I'm not a woo kind of guy, and so far, I've taken Buddhism to be strictly a philosophy with a religious, or spiritual component that western, practitioners are trying to downplay, so I'm not really all that interested in the whole idea of rebirth, reincarnation, etc, more in Buddhism as a workable philosophy to consider when making daily decisions.

So I guess my questions are more to do with the four noble truths, and the eightfold path from a modern, western perspective. For instance, someone's telling me that the first truth....All life is suffering...is an inaccurate translation of the word "dukka", that the Buddha wasn't talking about "suffering" as we think of the concept today.

I've pretty much given up the idea of doing my own research online, due to the reasons I cited above and I'm considering actually purchasing a book on the topic.

http://www.windhorsepublications.com/CartV2/Details.asp?ProductID=321

Has anyone else read this ? And if so, what is your take on it ? I'm drawn to the easy to read, can be understood by anyone sales pitch but if it's not a reliable reference to western Buddhism, I really don't want to waste my time with it.


Hiya. libraries are a great resources.

There are also thread that involve the poster yrreg, if you wish to know how many buddhists can dance on the head of a pin.

The book 'Buddhism for Dummies' is not too bad.

basic buddhism:

There was this guy and he lead a sheltered life. he encountered life outisde the palace and had some questions. he abandoned his wife and child. He lived with some gurus and almost starved to death. He sat under a tree and came to an understanding.

there is no self. all things are transitory, without soul amd accompanied by suffering.

clinging to self and avoidance of suffering lead to more suffering.

by following the eightfold path one can reduce suffering.
 
Buddhism is for dummies. Anyway, buddhism is just metaphysical hogwash. Most of the ideas are primitive, like reincarnation and enlightenment. Enlightenment for example just seems like woo and meditation is overrated.

Buddhist also have the delusion their not wasting their time. The four noble truths for example are just about morality. Which, is trivial. Now you would think Buddha would write about the theory of everything, or prove something mathematically improtant however, like most religions it just a self help programme with morality lesson.

Also, the dalai lama is a hypocrite, watch Penn and Teller holier than thou episode. The dalai lama was given money from the CIA to train terriorist to take back Tibet.

Hmm, the four truths are what?

There is suffering.
There is a cause of suffering.
There is a way to decrease suffering.
 
Becomingagodo...I might just arrive at those same conclusions myself. I was hoping to downplay all the "metaphysical hogwash" as being metaphoric, but that's just my working idea at this time. As a for instance....could the idea of "rebirth" be translated to represent maturity ? I'm 45 years old, and I've got to say, I'm a different person than I was when i was 20...Have I been "reborn" in a Buddhist sense? Is this what the Buddha meant? Or am i just making that up ?

I agree the four noble truths, and the eightfold path are...well..to use your words, a self help program, and that's what sparked my interest in the topic. I read through the truths/path and end up thinking...well...duh. Don't be a jerk....something that, in retrospect, i was when I was 20.

Dancing David..I was actually trying to be facetious with the thread title, are you saying that a book..Buddhism for Dummies, actually exists ? Yes, you are..I just googled it..oh well..a lesson learned.

I guess what I'm saying..is I seem to have figured out the truths/ path for myself. I'm no longer attached to material possessions, that is, I no longer attribute them the same significance that I used to because they're just "things" That motorcycle I bought...it was my passion, it was THE motorcycle that I spent hours and hours polishing...is now just a hunk of metal taking up space in my garage. The passion for it died out over time due to my changing priorities...It took me a while to deal with this idea, i thought maybe there's something wrong with me for loosing interest in what was once the focus of my life, but somehow, i managed to let go of those thoughts on my own....Maybe I was reborn...in a sense.
 
Becomingagodo...I might just arrive at those same conclusions myself. I was hoping to downplay all the "metaphysical hogwash" as being metaphoric, but that's just my working idea at this time. As a for instance....could the idea of "rebirth" be translated to represent maturity ? I'm 45 years old, and I've got to say, I'm a different person than I was when i was 20...Have I been "reborn" in a Buddhist sense? Is this what the Buddha meant? Or am i just making that up ?
Western buddhists are often very personal in thier buddhism. They often come to it through self exploration.

In buddhism there are many interpretations of rebirth, kamma, mind and the like. Some vary as widely as the people you ask.

As a sceptic budhist i like much of what Thich Naht Hahn has to say but there is a lot i disregard.

Rebirth and kamma are the transmission of choices and consequences. If we feed our anger or suffering it becomes like a weed in our life. So if we are somewhat vigilant and weed it out, it is less prevalent. And if we look at the transmissiono fo painful emotions, it seems there may even be transmission to other people.

There are these concepts called the twelve nidanna, or links or chains, they are like the twelve steps of clinging and attachment, they have some thanga paintings that involve them. They sort of carry the same message. What we do effects our future.
I agree the four noble truths, and the eightfold path are...well..to use your words, a self help program, and that's what sparked my interest in the topic. I read through the truths/path and end up thinking...well...duh. Don't be a jerk....something that, in retrospect, i was when I was 20.

Dancing David..I was actually trying to be facetious with the thread title, are you saying that a book..Buddhism for Dummies, actually exists ? Yes, you are..I just googled it..oh well..a lesson learned.

I guess what I'm saying..is I seem to have figured out the truths/ path for myself. I'm no longer attached to material possessions, that is, I no longer attribute them the same significance that I used to because they're just "things" That motorcycle I bought...it was my passion, it was THE motorcycle that I spent hours and hours polishing...is now just a hunk of metal taking up space in my garage. The passion for it died out over time due to my changing priorities...It took me a while to deal with this idea, i thought maybe there's something wrong with me for loosing interest in what was once the focus of my life, but somehow, i managed to let go of those thoughts on my own....Maybe I was reborn...in a sense.


The buddha would be cool with that, there is the story of the student in the potter's shed who the buddha believed had attained nibbana even without hearing the buddha speak.

I hope you still can get out and enjoy your motorcycle, I love em, but I am too afraid of other drivers any more to own one.
 
Stout,

OK...after smashing my head repeatedly against my keyboard while devoting just under two weeks to reading and trying to understand a thread here in R&P ( the Subjectivity and Science one ) I've decided that it's time to come to grips with, and try to develop a basic understanding of Buddhism.

The problems I've had so far have revolved around Buddhists talking in esoteric language that have me opening multiple tabs in my browser to search out the meanings of this language, and the result is m well, confusion.

And then there's the "personal interpretation" aspect that seems to accompany individual Buddhists. Take Karma for example. Is Karma something that we accrue in this life, or the next ?

Now I'm not a woo kind of guy, and so far, I've taken Buddhism to be strictly a philosophy with a religious, or spiritual component that western, practitioners are trying to downplay, so I'm not really all that interested in the whole idea of rebirth, reincarnation, etc, more in Buddhism as a workable philosophy to consider when making daily decisions.

So I guess my questions are more to do with the four noble truths, and the eightfold path from a modern, western perspective. For instance, someone's telling me that the first truth....All life is suffering...is an inaccurate translation of the word "dukka", that the Buddha wasn't talking about "suffering" as we think of the concept today.

I've pretty much given up the idea of doing my own research online, due to the reasons I cited above and I'm considering actually purchasing a book on the topic.

http://www.windhorsepublications.com/CartV2/Details.asp?ProductID=321

Has anyone else read this ? And if so, what is your take on it ? I'm drawn to the easy to read, can be understood by anyone sales pitch but if it's not a reliable reference to western Buddhism, I really don't want to waste my time with it.

There is a lot of information to cover here, but one thing that I always try to stress is that the Buddha's teachings are first and foremost a pragmatic path, that if sufficiently followed, will lead to a precise destination, i.e., nibbana. Essentially, whatever one's view of rebirth, nibbana is first and foremost the cessation of [mental] stress and suffering. When asked, "What now is nibbana?" by Jambukhadaka, Sariputta replied, "The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this, friend, is called nibbana" (SN 38.1). It is also stated by the Buddha that nibbana is "the highest bliss" (Dhp. 204). Furthermore, this freedom from suffering is not contingent upon death. The Buddha himself realized nibbana at the age of thirty-six, at which time he preceded to dedicate the remaining [forty-four] years of his life to teaching the path to the end of suffering. That being said, while there is room for skepticism in Buddhism, there is also a limit to that skepticism. In other words, there is a place for faith (yes, the dreaded word "faith") as well.

In the Pali Canon, the word saddha can be translated as "confidence," "conviction," or "faith." More specifically, it is a type of confidence, conviction, or faith that is rooted in understanding as well as what we would conventionally refer to as faith in the West, i.e., confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing. To give an example, for one to truly take refuge in the Buddha, one has to take his awakening on faith until they too have achieved that particular goal. Until then, they have no way of verifying the experience of awakening until they have experienced it for themselves. Therefore, while saddha by itself is not a sufficient condition for arriving at the highest fruits of the Dhamma, there are elements of faith that are important to the practice.

As the Venerable Thanissaro writes in his essay Faith in Awakening, "The Buddha never placed unconditional demands on anyone's faith... We read his famous instructions to the Kalamas, in which he advises testing things for oneself, and we see it as an invitation to believe, or not, whatever we like. Some people go so far as to say that faith has no place in the Buddhist tradition, that the proper Buddhist attitude is one of skepticism. But even though the Buddha recommends tolerance and a healthy skepticism toward matters of faith, he also makes a conditional request about faith: If you sincerely want to put an end to suffering — that's the condition — you should take certain things on faith, as working hypotheses, and then test them through following his path of practice."

Coming back to the path itself, the teachings on rebirth play an important role. Regardless if individual Buddhists, or people who simply adopt Buddhist practices, utilize the Pali Canon to selectively pick out teachings in order to construct a world view out of them, the Buddha himself made it clear that (i) these teachings and practices are designed to put an end to suffering, and that (ii) these teachings are like a raft to be used to cross a dangerous river—once that river has been crossed, the teachings have served their purpose (MN 22). What this means is that these teachings in and of themselves are not to be used to construct a world view of concepts that act as a theoretical box that practitioners have to fit their experiences and insights into, regardless of what they are, but they are to be used for the specific purpose of leading the practitioner to a direct experience of an unconditional nature—an experience that will free the mind from its afflictions of greed, hatred, and delusion. Once that goal is reached, the raft of teachings can be left behind.

That being said, one does not have to fully subscribe to concepts such as rebith, especially if they are more interested in the purely practical applications of Buddhism such as the fourth Noble Truth, i.e., the Noble Eightfold path, which consists of right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration. For two excellent overviews of the Noble Eightfold Path as it is presented in the Pali Canon, please see The Noble Eightfold Path: The Way to the End of Suffering and this section of Wings to Awakening. In addition, for a detailed overview of the Four Noble Truths, I would suggest taking a look at the short essay The Nobility of the Truths, as well as the lengthier anthology The Four Noble Truths: A Study Guide.

In regard to the book by Sangharakshita, I must admit that I am not a very big fan of Sangharakshita in general. I feel that there are much better resources out there. If you are looking for something that "demystifies Buddhism and explains simply and plainly how its practice can enrich our lives," then I would suggest picking up a copy of Stephen Batchelor's Buddhism without Beliefs. If, however, you are looking for recommendations regarding decent and reliable collections of Buddha's most important teachings from the Pali Canon, then I would suggest In the Buddha's Words: An Anthology of Discourses from the Pali Canon, The Life of the Buddha: According to the Pali Cannon, and Wings to Awakening (Note: Wings to Awakening is a little more heady reading than average).

Jason
 
Becomingagodo...I might just arrive at those same conclusions myself.

Just a caveat- becomingagodo does not know anything at all about Buddhism (or much of anything that he's thusfar demonstrated). He has opinions, mind- but they appear to be rooted in ignorance, prejudice, and assumption. I would take his posts with a grain of salt.
 
Stout,

I figure I'm going to buy a hardcopy version of the Dhammapada, rather than deal with online translations. Apathia's link looks like it will fill the bill and I'll try and track down a local source for it tomorrow.

If you are interested, you can find free, and in my opinion reliable, translations of the Dhammapada online by Acharya Buddharakkhita, Daw Mya Tin (w/commentary), and Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

Would, or could Theravada Buddhism be referred to as "pure" Buddhism? I'm aware of the effects of local "interpretations" and I've heard people refer to Thai Buddhism as not being "real" Buddhism.

I would not say that Theravada is "pure" Buddhism, but it is the oldest living school of Buddhism with a complete collection of texts in existence today. Technically, Thai Buddhism is Theravada.

Jason
 
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