British stuffed animal ad mentalism?

[Merko]

Recently a colleague of mine told me about a trick he'd heard about. Supposedly, some British mentalist had hired a couple of PR guys to do an ad for stuffed animals. They got something like 4 hours to come up with a sketch for an ad. Previously, the mentalist had put a sealed envelope in some safe place. When the four hours had passed, the PR guys presented a sketch of some animal arriving at the Pearly Gates, greeted by St Peter. The mentalist then had his sealed envelope opened, showing a stunningly similar sketch, featuring St Peter and the animal in roughly the same positions even.

Did anyone hear about this trick? According to my colleague, the workings of the trick was revealed later, and I'd like to confirm whether the story is true.

 

[tkingdoll]

It was Derren Brown. The working of the trick was revealed as part of the show but, as with any magic trick, the explanation given as part of the act is not actually how it was done. Derren claims in the show that the method is a series of subconscious suggestions placed along the guys' taxi route, but this is in fact nonsense.

The actual method is quite straightforward but my lips are sealed

 

[rebecca]

Recently a colleague of mine told me about a trick he'd heard about. Supposedly, some British mentalist had hired a couple of PR guys to do an ad for stuffed animals. They got something like 4 hours to come up with a sketch for an ad. Previously, the mentalist had put a sealed envelope in some safe place. When the four hours had passed, the PR guys presented a sketch of some animal arriving at the Pearly Gates, greeted by St Peter. The mentalist then had his sealed envelope opened, showing a stunningly similar sketch, featuring St Peter and the animal in roughly the same positions even.

Did anyone hear about this trick? According to my colleague, the workings of the trick was revealed later, and I'd like to confirm whether the story is true.

Yep, Derren Brown. Here you go:

 

[m_huber]

Does this type of trick have a name?

 

[Azrael 5]

Does this type of trick have a name?

Drawing duplication.

 

[Merko]

Thanks for the hints. I do wonder where St Peter entered into my colleague's mind..

 

[pjh]

It would be a wonderful trick if the 'reveal' at the end wasn't one long piece of camera trickery and editing.

If you watch the famous taxi ride carefully you can see that none of the stuff they supposedly see during the ride is shown either with the subjects in frame or there is a continuous pan from them to the 'subliminal influences'.

Derren is such a rubbish magician that he regularly stoops to camera tricks to achieve his effects - and for those who disagree - the 'reveal' at the end is part of the trick as far as the TV audience are concerned, those claiming that as long as he duplicates the drawing 'fairly' he can do whatever he wants afterwards are just just deluding themselves.

This trick purports to show Derren subconsciously influencing the ad guys to draw a picture - that's the full trick that the TV viewer sees - that trick is achieved purely using camera tricks - a dishonest edit of the taxi ride - once you allow camera tricks in TV magic the whole thing is pointless - anyone with an editing machine can be the world's greatest magician - rubbish.

 

[Azrael 5]

It would be a wonderful trick if the 'reveal' at the end wasn't one long piece of camera trickery and editing.

If you watch the famous taxi ride carefully you can see that none of the stuff they supposedly see during the ride is shown either with the subjects in frame or there is a continuous pan from them to the 'subliminal influences'.

Derren is such a rubbish magician that he regularly stoops to camera tricks to achieve his effects - and for those who disagree - the 'reveal' at the end is part of the trick as far as the TV audience are concerned, those claiming that as long as he duplicates the drawing 'fairly' he can do whatever he wants afterwards are just just deluding themselves.

This trick purports to show Derren subconsciously influencing the ad guys to draw a picture - that's the full trick that the TV viewer sees - that trick is achieved purely using camera tricks - a dishonest edit of the taxi ride - once you allow camera tricks in TV magic the whole thing is pointless - anyone with an editing machine can be the world's greatest magician - rubbish.

You are boring pjh,and Im sure revealing methods isn't allowed on here.

 

[pjh]

You are boring pjh,and Im sure revealing methods isn't allowed on here.

Not as boring as your Derren fanboyism, and now you're going to tell me that editing two separate films together is a top secret magician's method? Hilarious.

 

[DJM]

You can't say Derren is a rubbish magician, because he's done many great stage shows live without the use of editing. Would be more fair for you to say he's a rubbish TV magician.

But then you could say the same about Copperfield, who has done many effects with camera tricks and stooges, the same as other magicians who have had TV shows.

At least this specific effectwas made that way that the participants were not used as stooges, and there's a big chance they were fooled the same as the viewers when they got to watch the finished product on TV. Is there a camera trick involved? Yes, and I don't like it either. But at least the reactions of the ad people were real, which is part of what magic is about.

 

[Azrael 5]

We've been through this.
Its a false explanation for the trick.It's not a trick edited to make it happen.
How Derren wants to explain how his tricks work to the viewing public is up to him.
I'd rather see a lie in the explanation than in the trick(Criss Angel Copperfield,Blaine)

 

[AgeGap]

Drawing duplication.

He draws a second gun and fires that one instead.
It is a matter of opinion and taste that Derron is a good magician or not. He has brought magic in the UK back into the spotlight. What he does is seen as trendy and not the usual nerdy/cheesey stuff. What he does is not magic for magicians, he has took magic to a much wider audience. This is a good thing. What he does may only be tricks but like we all know, its not the trick but it is the presentation that really counts. Derron excels at presentation.

 

[JonWhite]

And that seems to be the problem here, in understanding the difference between the actual trick and the presentation that it is packaged within.

 

[pjh]

And that seems to be the problem here, in understanding the difference between the actual trick and the presentation that it is packaged within.

For me watching the clip the 'trick' is "Derren brings the ad guys on a taxi trip and they then draw based on how they were influenced", pure and simple.

Put another way, if Derren asked them to draw the ad and then produced a sealed envelope with the result in and left it at that it would not be the same effect, and tbh Derren probably wouldn't have a TV career.

Trying to say that the explanation is not part of the trick is a wonderful example of cognitive dissonance in Derren fans, your fanboy love for Derren is unshakeable so you make up some bull about how this dishonest technique is justified - and from 'skeptics' too!

I don't think that TV special effects or editing suite shenanigans have *any* part in a TV magic show, the camera must at all times (within reason) be a fair observer of what you would have seen with your own eyes if you had been there. The film of the men arriving by taxi is film a combination of scenes cut out of sequence and material filmed at another time cut into the journey - I still believe that as TV goes it's both rubbish and dishonest.

 

[JonWhite]

For me watching the clip the 'trick' is "Derren brings the ad guys on a taxi trip and they then draw based on how they were influenced", pure and simple.

And now feel cheated because a magician lied to you within a performance? He even began the show saying something along the lines of not believing what you were about to see.

Put another way, if Derren asked them to draw the ad and then produced a sealed envelope with the result in and left it at that it would not be the same effect, and tbh Derren probably wouldn't have a TV career.

Agreed. It is precisely his clever re-packaging and presentation of what usually amounts to old mentalism standards that makes him stand out and the highly respected performer he is.

Trying to say that the explanation is not part of the trick is a wonderful example of cognitive dissonance in Derren fans, your fanboy love for Derren is unshakeable so you make up some bull about how this dishonest technique is justified - and from 'skeptics' too!

Much as I respect and enjoy Brown as a performer, I am no-ones fanboy.
(I am however considering becoming Eva Green's stalker. )

Along with others, I just see things differently to you.

Within a performance a magician offers explanation porkies. It's the nature of the job. The use of a manipulated non-linear timeline was an extension of this.

I don't think that TV special effects or editing suite shenanigans have *any* part in a TV magic show, the camera must at all times (within reason) be a fair observer of what you would have seen with your own eyes if you had been there. The film of the men arriving by taxi is film a combination of scenes cut out of sequence and material filmed at another time cut into the journey - I still believe that as TV goes it's both rubbish and dishonest.

The trick seemed to work just fine on the ad men, who were there.

Whether news or reality show, TV is hardly a fair, objective observer of, well, almost anything.

 

[Azrael 5]

Oh poor pjh,howwibble magician tricked him.
Bad bad magician.

 

[tkingdoll]

pjh, the phoney explanation is as much misdirection for the audience as some distracting patter during a card routine in a live stage show. If you don't like the fact that magicians lie for a living, that you shouldn't believe any method they reveal because they are not in the business of revealing methods, then your argument is with the concept of magic performance and not Derren Brown.

ETA: I mean that in the context of the trick in the OP and many of Derrens others. However, he has and does reveal genuine methods too.

 

[Azrael 5]

pjh repeat after me:

Pwned!

 

[pjh]

pjh repeat after me:

Pwned!

I presume you're referring to the old thread where you continued to shriek that as a "magician" the only way Seance's girl in the spirit cabinet trick could be achieved was via hypnosis or suggestion until ... we you well and truly were ... "pwned"

Oh poor pjh,howwibble magician tricked him.
Bad bad magician.

See above answer.

And now feel cheated because a magician lied to you within a performance? He even began the show saying something along the lines of not believing what you were about to see.

So you can read my mind can you? That's quite a claim, how about addressing what I say rather than what you think the state of my mind is?

Whether news or reality show, TV is hardly a fair, objective observer of, well, almost anything.

I see no difference to Derren editing in a fake explanation and say Blaine editing in a fake levitation, they're both dishonest within the implied contract TV magicians have with their audience. Once you stoop to TV effects it ceases to be a demonstration of 'magic' but becomes TV drama.

I really couldn't care less how honest or dishonest other 'reality' TV shows are, for me when a magician is achieving his effects using dishonest edits he has ceased to be a magician.

What I find really hard is how much shrieking and childish behaviour one person (me) saying what I think is causing, you fanboys are too much! I can't have an opinion no?

You can't say Derren is a rubbish magician, because he's done many great stage shows live without the use of editing. Would be more fair for you to say he's a rubbish TV magician.

Well that's the point, I've seen the TV version of something wicked and tbh it's quite crap - certainly nothing on his made for TV stuff, it shows how poor he is in the flesh so to speak - the show was full of filler like blockhead, walking on glass and stopping your pulse - perhaps one reasonable effect in the whole show.

 

[Azrael 5]

I presume you're referring to the old thread where you continued to shriek that as a "magician" the only way Seance's girl in the spirit cabinet trick could be achieved was via hypnosis or suggestion until ... we you well and truly were ... "pwned"

Without seeing the quote from said thread I have no idea what you are referring to.Kindly publish this information.