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Brains, Science, and Nonordinary and Transcendent Experiences

[pmod=Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]TLN, this has to stop now, regardless of Ian's level of incivility.[/pmod]

[pmod=Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]Ian, if you want to flame on about idiot sycophants worshiping the prevailing Western worldview, do it somewhere else.[/pmod]
 
Ian, I officially apologize for calling you 'hyperstupid'.

Of course, being obstinant and egotistical, the 'stupid' label still stands. :D

Anyway, back on topic: Ian, if you have issues with something within my post specifically, please address these issues. Otherwise, the reader will have to assume that, being unable to address these issues, you resort to insults and name-calling as a means of redirecting the topic away from the critical errors in your posts. True, they may also say the same of me - resorting to 'hyperstupid' was, itself, stupid.

The fact, so far, is that there is no portion of the brain responsible for absorbing any nature of signal external to the senses. Only sensory input is allowed into the brain; even the 'brainwaves' that so many woos rely on for their theories are insufficiently strong enough to connect to any one else, much less to some 'universal source'. Further, all observed processing within the brain has been purely causal in nature - that is, no activity in the brain happens 100% spontaneously, but only as a reaction to activity elsewhere within the brain and from signals within the senses. (Actually, I may be wrong about this - I'm not sure, for example, of the process of autonomous functionality.)

Further, the computer example is far more precise than the television example - the brain absorbs input via the senses and restructures this learned knowledge into new arrangements. Nothing within awareness is created ex nihilo, but as a response to sensory input and memory - which is, itself, a response to sensory input.

TLN - Please refrain from even suggesting suicide, murder, or other vitally criminal activity. I'm no mod, nor probably ever will be, but I speak as a priest and a mature adult, when I say that threats - even indirect and unintentional ones - do nothing but harm everyone on this board. Ian doesn't deserve it - no matter what you may think of him personally.
 
In fact, I just noticed upon re-reading the passage, that the author appears to be offering alternatives to the possibility that the patient suffered an NDE. In fact, in excellent critical-thinking mode, he precisely addressed the issues which are absolutely vital in determining what actual experience the woman may have had. Ian, you could learn a lot by addressing these issues yourself. You really ought to read some of this material sometimes.

Also, notice, Gentle Reader (if you have the patience to wade through the text) that while he often refers to a brain as a filter for divine signals, he rarely states this outright; rather, he simply says that observed information concerning the brain does not rule out the idea of divine signals... it might be this, it could also be that... in other words, lacking any clear evidence that this is true, the author is merely engaging in speculation of the sort which has neither proof nor disproof as of yet. It is, I admit, an intruiging idea, which only fails as regards modern science by the fact that no such external divine stimuli appears to exist or has been detected, as of yet; nor is there clearly any hard evidence that personality survives total death, nor of any other phenomena which would suggest this 'filter-brain' theory to be true. Still - lack of evidence is not the same as counter-evidence, so this theory does, in fact, have some small merit, so long as 'divine signals' are never fully disproven.

However, it also renders the argument irrelevant. The brain behaves as it does, whether it is filtering divine signals or not, and the observed scientific and medical evidence suggests simple cause-effect relationships between different sorts of brain activity. Adding in a signal-filter relationship does nothing to improve the description of brain activity; its only use or potential comes in the attempt to understand consciousness and to relate consciousness either to a) a material process or b) an external, 'spiritual' one. Obviously, the fundamental philosophy of each person determines, in part, which they are willing to accept. We observe, for example, that Ian colours all his theories and observations with his theist viewpoint; to him, the soul absolutely must exist, and as such, must be something beyond the mere confines of the physical as such. So, to Ian, qualia are inherently immaterial, as are thoughts, feelings, etc.

One can sympathise with this world-view to a degree - and, indeed, the intuitive part of me feels that such a world-view is ultimately warranted. But the materialistic and scientific evidence thus far is that all mental activity of any sort is entirely material in nature - including awareness and thought - and that all that needs be studied is the brain in greater detail. The more we learn of the brain, the fewer brain processes remain immaterial. Reductionism is slowly eliminating the immaterial mind, and only time will tell if it will reduce this to nothing, or if it will finally fail and have some immaterial thing to deal with.

... Seems I'm rambling. Well, I apologize - the medicines are really strong. :D
 
zaayrdragon said:
In fact, I just noticed upon re-reading the passage, that the author appears to be offering alternatives to the possibility that the patient suffered an NDE. In fact, in excellent critical-thinking mode, he precisely addressed the issues which are absolutely vital in determining what actual experience the woman may have had. Ian, you could learn a lot by addressing these issues yourself. You really ought to read some of this material sometimes.

{sighs}

zaayrdragon,

Why do you think I posted this article?? I posted it because this article is somewhat unusual!

In what way??

The guy is trying to be completely objective about the evidence, that's why!

He's saying, 'yes the evidence seems to be suggestive of blah blah. But wait! This is certainly not proof. Perhaps blah blah could explain away the evidence'!

What I'm saying is that I feel this William Braud guy is giving a good objective assessment of the evidence, looking at all possible alternatives etc.

This is why I posted it!

Let's face it, it would have been very easy of me to have pasted in an article which simple conveyed that all this phenomena is what it appears to be! I'm not interested in that. I'm interested infinding out the truth about the world!

Jeez!

Thanks btw for your support against TLN.
 
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos said:
[pmod=Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]TLN, this has to stop now, regardless of Ian's level of incivility.[/pmod]

[pmod=Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]Ian, if you want to flame on about idiot sycophants worshiping the prevailing Western worldview, do it somewhere else.[/pmod]

The Forum Management section will do fine.
 

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