Book Test: Max & Any Others Interested

[Garrette]

This actually began in this thread

There are several posts on Pages 2 and 3 about it, but I thought splitting it would be best.

To summarize:

In an informal experiment, Toastrider placed a book on top of his computer and invited anyone to determine the title via remote viewing or any other paranormal ability.

Max gave an interesting but debatable answer.

Toastrider is repeating the experiment via pms; I am setting up my own similar experiment on the forum.

So far, Max has agreed to participate, but it is open to anyone, believer or non-believer, skeptic or cynic, woo-woo or curmudgeon. I would, in fact, prefer to have several participants.

[As an aside: Toastrider, you are welcome to use this thread for your public communications and posting of results]

I have suggested a protocol which has been neither agreed to nor rejected by Max, but Interesting Ian and Clancie have objected to some of it (both of them in a professional manner; this comment is not to meant to be derogatory).

In my test, I have placed a book on top of my locker in hopes that someone can determine its title or possibly subject matter via anomalous cognition:

I will quote some of the relevant parts of previous posts:

Originally posted by Garrette:

We haven't worked out details, but the gist is for anyone you like to correctly name the title of a book I have selected and set out.
Preferably, we will do this several times.

It does not matter to me if the title is gleaned by telepathy, clairvoyance, remote viewing, quantum displacement, astral traveling, superstring warping, mediumship, temporal anti-gravitron tunneling, or alien communication. I am only interested that the title be correctly determined somehow other than via mundane means

Originally posted by Garrette:

I can't speak for Toastrider, Winston, but for my book title experiment I'm open to suggestions to ensure I don't cheat.
(Although I think there are those on this forum who might vouch that they trust me; I think Clancie would be one, though I don't want to speak for her).

Perhaps there is a mutually agreeable third party to whom I could e-mail or pm the book title.

Or this: I could mail the name of the book to different people, you included. Mail takes about two weeks to reach anyone from here, so I could mail it (you could check the post mark upon receipt) and then give the participants about 5 days or so to respond.

Originally posted by Max

Garratt

I don't feel confident with this as I couldn't concentrate as deeply as I wanted. I got adventure, a boy, but also horse and carriage racing so I don't know. Could it be Mark Twain book?

Originally posted by Garrette:

Hi, Max, thanks for participating.

I don't feel confident with this as I couldn't concentrate as deeply as I wanted.

Not a problem. Take as long as you like until you do feel comfortable.

I got adventure, a boy, but also horse and carriage racing so I don't know.

Is this your guess, or do you want to wait until you feel comfortable?

We haven't really set any guidelines, but I'd like to propose some now:

1. We're going for title only; descriptions of subject matter do not count as hits.

2. Words actually in the title count as hits, even if out of order.

3. Words not in the title take away on a one-for-one basis from the hits; this means it's possible to get a negative score.

4. No questions will be answered except after you submit your word(s)

5. Each book will be a commercially published book. No other restrictions. Out-of-print books are allowed.


If these protocols do not fit with how you get your impressions, just propose some of your own. I'm quite flexible on this.

Originally posted by Max:

Could it be Mark Twain book?

See #4 above.



P.S. I'm glad I got the darn thing up on my locker sooner than I expected...whew....

Originally posted by Garrette:

Originally posted by Interesting Ian:

I don't think this is going to work, even assuming Max received the information anomalously for the first book. Research indicates that people initially do well, then their performance slips, but they do well again in the very last trial (albeit not as well as the very beginning).

And from anecdotal accounts we cannot just perform at will, at least not time after time.

So even if Max got the first book by psi, I would say he probably won't be able to do it again.

-----

You may be right, Ian.

Tell you what: If we change the requirement to exact title (I won't count misspellings against him), then I will agree that if Max gets just 1 out of 10, I will begin seriously reviewing my position on anomalous cognition.

I'm willing to consider 1 out of 10 in this effort a success

Originally posted by Max:

I'd like to make it clear that I am not a medium/clairvoyant or anything else regarding telling fortunes etc. The book Toasty challenged us with is my first attempt to do anything remotely like this. I have experienced unexplainable incidents during my life and most of you will be aware of the ones I have related on here. I don't think it is possible to come up with exact details of a book title nor do I think I happened to be lucky in selecting the God Father. I think that, that is phenomenal given all the millions of words we use and I came up with God. I don't even know how a clairvoyant works, all I did was to concentrate so hard on the book by Toasty's computer but this took tremendous effort. I was unable to get so deep in with Garratte's book. I may have an attempt again but I'm not sure when. I don't think one can put a time/place on the excercise. I left Toast's challenge for quite a long time and then I just felt one night that I could take up his challenge, so I did. I can't explain it.

That's a lot of quoting in one post, but it's the best I can do.

For those who want to participate, please join in.

For those who have suggestions on protocol, they are most welcome.

There are other specific discussions between me and Clancie about protocols, but I didn't quote them. You may find them of interest in the other thread.

 

[mstricky]

Garrette
Yes it is a good idea to use this new thread for the subject. Regarding Toasty, he suggested in a PM that I should have another go and has placed a second book by his computer, however, I haven't commented on this nor PMd him with any sort of challenge. I will have another try at your book garrette at some stage and I will also admit if I can't come up with anything.
I do get a thought that it is 'Tom Sawyer' but there's also 'The Horses Tale'.

 

[Darat]

About making sure the that the book is the one on top of your locker, you could use PGP to encrypt the title - then place it here in full public view and then when the test is over reveal the key.

(You could also encrypt a picture of the book on your locker.)

 

[davidhorman]

I can't speak for Toastrider, Winston, but for my book title experiment I'm open to suggestions to ensure I don't cheat.

You could PGP encrypt it and post it here, then after the test you supply the key.

Or, simpler, insert the title into the middle of a short bit of random text (lorem ipsum) perhaps, use an MD5 checksummer and post the result here.

David

 

[Garrette]

Originally posted by david horman:

You could PGP encrypt it and post it here, then after the test you supply the key.

Or, simpler, insert the title into the middle of a short bit of random text (lorem ipsum) perhaps, use an MD5 checksummer and post the result here.

David

Thanks for the suggestions, but I have a two fold problem:

1. I'm technically illiterate
2. Due to my situation, I will not be able to install any programs on the machine I'm using.

Regarding the random text, it sounds intriguing. Can you be more specific on exactly how to do that?

Thanks.

Edited to add: Thanks to you, too, Darat. I read quickly and missed your post.

 

[Garrette]

Originally posted by Max:

Garrette
Yes it is a good idea to use this new thread for the subject. Regarding Toasty, he suggested in a PM that I should have another go and has placed a second book by his computer, however, I haven't commented on this nor PMd him with any sort of challenge. I will have another try at your book garrette at some stage and I will also admit if I can't come up with anything.
I do get a thought that it is 'Tom Sawyer' but there's also 'The Horses Tale'.

Does this constitute your answer, Max? Or should I wait until you specifically say "This is my answer?"

If I wait, then I will not allow credit for previous answers that you did not say: "This is my answer."

Also, do you agree with my suggested protocols? I'll repost them here, but it's not too late to change them.



1. We're going for title only; descriptions of subject matter do not count as hits.

2. Words actually in the title count as hits, even if out of order.

3. Words not in the title take away on a one-for-one basis from the hits; this means it's possible to get a negative score.

4. No questions will be answered except after you submit your word(s)

5. Each book will be a commercially published book. No other restrictions. Out-of-print books are allowed.


If these protocols do not fit with how you get your impressions, just propose some of your own. I'm quite flexible on this.


I'm going to add one more, though, as an edit to number 2:

Conjunctions and other such type words do not count toward a hit; i.e., "The" does not count toward a hit; neither does "And" or "Or".

 

[Garrette]

Blindingly obvious thought:

Would someone (hint, hint, david or darat or other) to let me e-mail the book info to them, and that person could then encrypt it here?

I may ask for Claus' help on this.

 

[Interesting Ian]

Clancie
Its not like seeing a book jacket and being able to read a title.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Garrete
You see, it appears again as if you are speaking for all psychics. Since you admit you can not do so, then please let Max determine his abilities and limitations

Well I agree with everything Clancie says. I think I've got a pretty good feel of how esp works, and my views coincide with hers.

BTW Max, how well do you remember your dreams?

When I was very young I could remember all my dreams perfectly and I didn't understand what people were talking about when they said they couldn't remember their dreams. But now, although I know I dream, my memory of them just about immediately goes.

Now when I was very young I had quite a few anomalous experiences which basically have never occurred again after about the age of 9. Possibly the age when I started to forget my dreams.

So about a year ago I was wondering if there might perhaps be a connection here. This belief received quite a bit of further support when I read somewhere that there is some evidence that people who remember their dreams appear to have greater psi ability.

 

[Garrette]

[I}Interesting Ian:[/I]

Well I agree with everything Clancie says. I think I've got a pretty good feel of how esp works, and my views coincide with hers.

Two hardly makes a quorum, but if you'd care to discuss specifics in another thread, I'm game.

For this thread, though, I'd really rather you make concrete proposals for the protocol. (That's sincere, btw, in case it's in doubt). Max has yet to comment on my proposals; perhaps he'll comment on yours or Clancie's.

 

[Ed]

The books spine is darkish blue or blue with black highlights sort of with white writing, horizontal. The title is 3 or 4 words first word is "the".

 

[mstricky]

Garrette

Yes the conditions you set seem to be ok although I don't know whether I can come up with a title.
Why is it not good enough to come up with a genre or a bit about the book....i.e I have found 'American Gods' (Toasts book) on the net and it is about crime initially, so I scored two counts on that one. The book begins with the main character in jail and about to be released ,he hears that his wife is killed the day before he comes out of jail. As I said in earlier posts, I got the words God and crime in my mind. As there are not many books with God in the title I went for the Godfather, I only know of another and that's Chariots of the Gods.
When I concentrated on your book I got a vivid vision of horse/carriage or chariot race but two teams raced into each other. Then I got adventure and boy. It maybe that these thoughts are not connected to anything remotely concerning this forum but that's all I can come up with for now.
Ian, I only remember dreams if they are just before I waken and have always been like that. This is why the unexplained dreams I've had totally stand out from any others, in that they are brightly lit, a lighting that isn't normal plus you know that this is a message. It also feels as if time stands still for those moments and also in both dreams it was all done by thought transference. In both dreams I had to ask the person to turn round as their backs were to me.

Getting back to the subject, I do think Garrette that psychics do work as Clancie and Ian describe. I am not a psychic although I have been told many times that I should train up to be one. I am too scared to bother. I think if there were a psychic on here, they would probably say the same as me, that it's not possible to come up with the exact details of the book. If you are saying NO it's not adventure, horse racing etc then I will have one more try but I'll wait until the time is right next time.

 

[Garrette]

Hi, Max,

I don't want to force my protocols on you. If what you think you can do does not extend to the actual title, then we won't use the title.

I don't have a problem with you describing the subject matter; I just disagree on what is considered sufficient to constitute a hit.

As I tried to demonstrate on the other thread, the impressions you posted (adventure, boy, horse, carriage) could be counted as a hit on countless books.

If you want to stick with the genre/subject matter/whatever, we can do that. Just try to be more specific about it.

That being said, shall we call the first trial to an end, and if so, which of your answers is the final answer? Or would you like to wait a bit and give a different one?

---

Ed, I will take that as your final guess, unless you tell me you want to refine it. You've got time. I hadn't prepared for someone to guess at the physical description. I'll spend a few moments writing them down so they won't change over time.

I'll try to take a digital pic, too, but I've had no luck with those in the past.

Edited to add: No need for the written description or pic. The exact book is on Amazon with a clear picture.

 

[mstricky]

Garrette
Ok we'll start over. Don't know if and when I am able to come up with anything though.

 

[Interesting Ian]

So far, Max has agreed to participate, but it is open to anyone, believer or non-believer, skeptic or cynic, woo-woo or curmudgeon. I would, in fact, prefer to have several participants.

I think they might be a propensity for skeptics to psi miss ie get significant results below chance.

 

[Garrette]

The following is transplanted from the other thread. I think they help with the whole protocol for genre/subject answers as opposed to titles.

Originally posted by Clancie, in the original thread

Posted by Garrette

Let me ask you this: Which of the following books would Max's answer (I got adventure, a boy, but also horse and carriage racing) not apply to?

-Huckleberry Finn
-Tom Sawyer
-Ben Hur
-Any of the Hardy Boys Mysteries
-Sea Biscuit
-Treasure Island
-Great Expectations
-Oliver Twist
-Black Beauty
-Harry Potter
-The Bible
-Any myriad others

Offhand, these are the ones I would reject.

Huck Finn
Tom Sawyer
Any of the Hardy Boys
Treasure Island
Great Expectations
Oliver Twist
(I can't remember Black Beauty well...so "maybe")
Harry Potter
The Bible

I would be looking for an adventure book where the boy was the main character and a horse was a main character and they had to escape together from something, or a boy + a main scene in the book with a horse in a carriage/chariot ride or race, where something like that figured as an important part of the book.

Boy growing to manhood in the story and participating in a horse/chariot race as an adult in a key scene in the book--a la Ben Hur? I'd probably take that as a hit of a sort, though I could understand if you wouldn't. (That said, I don't think your book is "Ben Hur").

Originally posted by Garrette, in the original thread

Thanks, Clancie.

I can agree with the sentiment. Are you able to turn that into some sort of rule? I'm thinking along the lines:

If the word or phrase is given in reference to the genre or plot of the book, then the word or the phrase must be directly and obviously applicable to the main character or main characters or to the major plot line.

I can live with that.

I'm going to take the liberty of copying this comment and yours over on the other thread.

 

[lofgoernost]

The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test

This came to me before reading the following by Ed

The books spine is darkish blue or blue with black highlights sort of with white writing, horizontal. The title is 3 or 4 words first word is "the".

Now, let's quibble about how many words Koo-Aid will count for ;-)

 

[Garrette]

Originally posted by Max:

Ok we'll start over. Don't know if and when I am able to come up with anything though.

I think you mean that I should reveal the first book and put up a new one. For the new one, you'll aim for subject matter.

Here goes, then.

Title: The Tangier Diaries: 1962-1979
Author: John Hopkins

Book Jacket: Yellow, almost completely, including the spine

Color of Title Letters: Red


-----

Ed's Answer:

The books spine is darkish blue or blue with black highlights sort of with white writing, horizontal. The title is 3 or 4 words first word is "the".

Guess for spine color: Incorrect - Miss
Guess for coloring of spine letters: Incorrect - Miss
Guess for length of title: Incorrect - Miss
Guess for first word of title: Correct - Not counted, per protocol

Max's Answers:

I got adventure, a boy, but also horse and carriage racing so I don't know.

--snip--

I do get a thought that it is 'Tom Sawyer' but there's also 'The Horses Tale'.

Adventure: In a broad sense correct - Neither hit nor miss. I think it lies more in the miss column because it is presented in association with "boy", but I'm willing to not insist on that here.

Boy: Incorrect - Miss

Horse and carriage racing: Incorrect - Miss (It would also be a miss if we broke out horse racing from carriage racing, but that would add another miss, so I'm leaving them together)

Tom Sawyer: Incorrect - Miss

A Horse's Tale: Incorrect - Miss


---

Here is the Amazon link for this title:

Tangier Diaries at Amazon

And this is the Publishers Weekly Editors Review on Amazon:

From Publishers Weekly
When Hopkins graduated from Princeton in 1960, he wasn't interested in the conventional routes of graduate study or a Wall Street career. Instead, he traveled, first to South America where he and a Princeton friend had visions of making money in coffee. When that fell through, the two wandered around Europe, stumbling eventually on teaching jobs at an American school in Tangier. There, they found a community of artists and socialites more accepting than most because of the remote locale. During his time in Morocco, Hopkins managed to enter into two major romances, befriend fellow ex-pat novelists William Burroughs and Paul Bowles, and even write several novels. As Hopkins gains experience, the voice he uses to catalogue his life in Tangiers changes, from his first perceptions as a perpetual tourist ("These urchins won't leave us alone. Do these diminutive hustlers ever sleep?") to an insider's appreciation of the land and the culture?"I know that that landscape and the Moroccans in it represent something totally human, something harmoniously timeless to which I give my full allegiance." The colorful references to actual occurrences take second place to describing the mysticism and primitive beauty of North Africa. Those musings and the sometimes overripe prose give the book some of the quality of an 18th-century European travelogue. There are times, though, when Hopkins shows that he is conscious of this escapist excess: "Here there is no pressure, no anxiety. I simply put down the words and they trickle out. Ideas recorded here do no violence to my soul.... How sweet the peace is."
Copyright 1998 Reed Business Information, Inc.

 

[Garrette]

Oops. Missed this one:

Originally posted by lofgoernost:

The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test

Four words ("The" is not counted): None correct - 4 Misses

 

[Garrette]

Originally posted by Interesting Ian:

I think they might be a propensity for skeptics to psi miss ie get significant results below chance.

It is unclear if you mean they will do this intentionally or it will simply happen because of some sort of negative psi inherent in skeptics.

In either case, if it is true, then it will help Max and others who legitimately try the test because it will make every hit that much more significant since the baseline will be that much poorer.

 

[Garrette]

Max, (and all others participating; others are still welcome to join)

Give me about four hours from the time I post this before you start attempting new answers.

Take all the time you like. I'm in no rush, and I would prefer you not answer before you are confident in your answer.