Bob Woodward on 60 Minutes

[subgenius]

October Surprise:

"April 19 (Bloomberg) -- Saudi Arabia's ambassador to the U.S. has promised President George W. Bush the Saudis will reduce oil prices before this November's election to help the U.S. economy, according to Bob Woodward, author of a new book about the Iraq war.
..."

And this:

"In his book, titled ``Plan of Attack,'' Woodward also says that the ambassador, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, was given advance information about plans to invade Iraq by Vice President Richard Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

Bandar learned of the attack plans on Jan. 11, 2003, two days before U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell was told of the decision, according to Woodward. "
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aDtL66T_rvqY&refer=us

He was even shown a secret battle map which was marked "NOFOR" meaning not to be shown to foreigners.

House of Saud friends of America? No. Friends of the Bush Family.

 

[Brown]

Because of severe thunderstorm warnings and tornado watches/warnings in my area of the country, "60 Minutes" was interrupted by weather warnings, and only snippets of the show were uninterrrupted. Those portions that I saw, however, were disturbing.

You can read part of the story at the CBS News web site.

There are a couple of points that are apparent. First, if Woodward is correct, then President Bush may have committed impeachable offenses far more constitutionally serious than anything President Clinton did. The chance of an impeachment proceeding, however, is virtually zero.

Second, although many of Woodward's previous works were heavily criticized as inaccurate at the time of publication, they were subsequently acknowledged as being correct. Few writers have Woodward's track record of taking on controversial topics and withstanding waves of criticism. The fact that Woodward is now being challenged by the White House is typical of a pattern we've seen many times before.

 

[subgenius]

“Gets to a point where in July, the end of July 2002, they need $700 million, a large amount of money for all these tasks. And the president approves it. But Congress doesn't know and it is done. They get the money from a supplemental appropriation for the Afghan War, which Congress has approved. …Some people are gonna look at a document called the Constitution which says that no money will be drawn from the Treasury unless appropriated by Congress. Congress was totally in the dark on this."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/60minutes/main612067.shtml

Not only misapprpriating money, but from, of all places the actual war on terror in Afghanistan.

 

[subgenius]

Woodward seems to give Bush some credit for questioning the evidence at least at first.

”McLaughlin has access to all the satellite photos, and he goes in and he has flip charts in the oval office. The president listens to all of this and McLaughlin's done. And, and the president kind of, as he's inclined to do, says ‘Nice try, but that isn't gonna sell Joe Public. That isn't gonna convince Joe Public,’” says Woodward.

In his book, Woodward writes: "The presentation was a flop. The photos were not gripping. The intercepts were less than compelling. And then George Bush turns to George Tenet and says, 'This is the best we've got?'"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/60minutes/main612067.shtml

 

[subgenius]

Astounding:

"Beyond not asking his father about going to war, Woodward was startled to learn that the president did not ask key cabinet members either.

”The president, in making the decision to go to war, did not ask his secretary of defense for an overall recommendation, did not ask his secretary of state, Colin Powell, for his recommendation,” says Woodward.

But the president did ask Rice, his national security adviser, and Karen Hughes, his political communications adviser.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/60minutes/main612067.shtml

 

[rikzilla]

There are a couple of points that are apparent. First, if Woodward is correct, then President Bush may have committed impeachable offenses far more constitutionally serious than anything President Clinton did. The chance of an impeachment proceeding, however, is virtually zero.

IF Bob Woodward had evidence of "offenses far more constitutionally serious than anything President Clinton did." then the chance for an impeachment proceeding would not be "virtually zero"...would it?

So maybe he did, and maybe he didn't Brown,...but wiggle-words do not make a basis for impeachment. There was far more evidence of Iraqi WMD's than there is for GWB's "impeachable offenses".

-z

 

[Bikewer]

Bush is beginning to mightily annoy even hard-core Republicans.

Talk of the Nation interviewed a "Reagan-era" guy who'd written a book about the "Bush Dynasty", and how radically the policies of the current administration differed from the GOP of the Nixon-Reagan period.

With my wonky memory, I can't recall the guy's name.

 

[subgenius]

IF Bob Woodward had evidence of "offenses far more constitutionally serious than anything President Clinton did." then the chance for an impeachment proceeding would not be "virtually zero"...would it?

So maybe he did, and maybe he didn't Brown,...but wiggle-words do not make a basis for impeachment. There was far more evidence of Iraqi WMD's than there is for GWB's "impeachable offenses".

-z

The impeachable offense he's referring to is the appropriations for the war prep taken from the Afghanistan funds without congressional approval. Not the fact that there was little evidence of WMDs.

 

[rikzilla]

The impeachable offense he's referring to is the appropriations for the war prep taken from the Afghanistan funds without congressional approval. Not the fact that there was little evidence of WMDs.

There are two assertions here...fist that the "offense" is an actually prohibited action....and second, that it is impeachable.

If this is so I have no doubt that Congress has many members who would like to see GWB's downfall and would not shy away from introducing articles of impeachment.

...that is....IF there's evidence, and IF the offense is impeachable.

(crickets chirp)

Perhaps if an article of impeachment is introduced GWB can take a page from his predecessor and find a dog in need of wagging?



-z

 

[subgenius]

Your big smilies are irritating. But I guess you feel they add some substance to your opinions.

(Insert really, really big smirking smilie here)

 

[rikzilla]

Your big smilies are irritating. But I guess you feel they add some substance to your opinions.

(Insert really, really big smirking smilie here)

Sorry dude,...my irritation of you with Mr. Big Smiley is merely transitory. Your irritation of everyone who reads your posts is an on-going torture by way of Mr. Winky, aka: 1950's era pipe-smoking man.

Which is undoubtedly an inhumane, and possibly impeachable offense! Not to mention an ongoing "crime against humanity".

-z

 

[Snide]

Astounding:

"Beyond not asking his father about going to war, Woodward was startled to learn that the president did not ask key cabinet members either.

”The president, in making the decision to go to war, did not ask his secretary of defense for an overall recommendation, did not ask his secretary of state, Colin Powell, for his recommendation,” says Woodward.

But the president did ask Rice, his national security adviser, and Karen Hughes, his political communications adviser.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/60minutes/main612067.shtml

I'm surprised you didn't note what was said directly before this.

Did Mr. Bush ask his father for any advice? “I asked the president about this. And President Bush said, ‘Well, no,’ and then he got defensive about it,” says Woodward. “Then he said something that really struck me. He said of his father, ‘He is the wrong father to appeal to for advice. The wrong father to go to, to appeal to in terms of strength.’ And then he said, ‘There's a higher Father that I appeal to.’"

Like Brown, I'm in Minnesota and weather alerts kept me from seeing much of it. But I did get a chance to hear a good part of the simulcast on radio (because it actually wasn't a "simulcast"...it aired a little earlier because the TV show was delayed by the golf tournament playoff. Anywho....). This "higher father" was what caught my attention most disturbingly. But then we must remember, it is one man's account of the words and context.

 

[Mr Manifesto]

I'm surprised you didn't note what was said directly before this.


Like Brown, I'm in Minnesota and weather alerts kept me from seeing much of it. But I did get a chance to hear a good part of the simulcast on radio (because it actually wasn't a "simulcast"...it aired a little earlier because the TV show was delayed by the golf tournament playoff. Anywho....). This "higher father" was what caught my attention most disturbingly. But then we must remember, it is one man's account of the words and context.

Although it does seem to dove-tail with Bush's 'divine right of The President' philosophy.

 

[Snide]

Although it does seem to dove-tail with Bush's 'divine right of The President' philosophy.

Sure does.

I see Brown beat me to the punch and got it on the Bushisms thread.

 

[Ladewig]

IF Bob Woodward had evidence of "offenses far more constitutionally serious than anything President Clinton did." then the chance for an impeachment proceeding would not be "virtually zero"...would it?

I disagree. While evidence of crimes of a necessary component of impeachment proceedings, it alone is not sufficient to produce impeachment proceedings. It is possible to have compelling evidence and still have a "virtually zero" chance of i.p. especially during a prolonged military conflict.

 

[RandFan]

‘There's a higher Father that I appeal to.’ [/B]

Poor George, going to god for help. This alone is reason enough to count him inept and unworthy of the office of the president.

Here is another account.

"I was riding with Mr. Potts near to the Valley Forge where the army lay during the war of ye Revolution, when Mr. Potts said, 'Do you see that woods & that plain? There laid the army of Washington. It was a most distressing time of ye war, and all were for giving up the Ship but that great and good man. In that woods (pointing to a close in view) I heard a plaintive sound as of a man at prayer. I tied my horse to a sapling & went quietly into the woods. To my astonishment I saw the great George Washington on his knees alone, with his sword on one side and his cocked hat on the other. He was at Prayer to the God of the Armies, beseeching to interpose with his Divine aid, as it was ye Crisis & the cause of the country, of humanity & of the world. Such a prayer I never heard from the lips of man. I left him alone praying. I went home & told my wife. We never thought a man could be a soldier & a Christian, but if there is one in the world, it is Washington. We thought it was the cause of God & America could prevail."

Source: Eyewitness testimony of Isaac Potts, a Valley Forge resident who shared the following story with the Rev. Nathaniel Randolph Snowden (1770-1851), who then recorded it in his "Diary and Remembrances."

 

[pgwenthold]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did Mr. Bush ask his father for any advice? “I asked the president about this. And President Bush said, ‘Well, no,’ and then he got defensive about it,” says Woodward. “Then he said something that really struck me. He said of his father, ‘He is the wrong father to appeal to for advice. The wrong father to go to, to appeal to in terms of strength.’ And then he said, ‘There's a higher Father that I appeal to.’"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow. Just when I think Bush my opinion of Bush couldn't sink, there is this.

IF THIS IS TRUE, it is very, very scary. Look at what he is saying, in effect: God told him to invade Iraq.


Yowch.

 

[RandFan]

Wow. Just when I think Bush my opinion of Bush couldn't sink, there is this.

IF THIS IS TRUE, it is very, very scary. Look at what he is saying, in effect: God told him to invade Iraq.


Yowch.

As much as God told George Washington to cross the Deleware.

Look, I wish my leaders were not religious. But it is wrong to state that Bush's rationale for invading Iraq was religious considerations. It is clear that he made a case for war and that he considered lot's of issues. You can disagree with those issues and his case but it is wrong to suggest that we went to war simply because Bush believes in god.

I understand the contempt and hatred of Bush but come on folks, we are better than this.

 

[Charlie Monoxide]

Wow. Just when I think Bush my opinion of Bush couldn't sink, there is this.

IF THIS IS TRUE, it is very, very scary. Look at what he is saying, in effect: God told him to invade Iraq.


Yowch.

It wasn't god, it was a voice in his head.......

Charlie (I golf with god and he never mentioned GWB) Monoxide

 

[pgwenthold]

As much as God told George Washington to cross the Deleware.

Did Washington say he asked God for advice on whether to cross the Delaware?

Look, I wish my leaders were not religious. But it is wrong to state that Bush's rationale for invading Iraq was religious considerations.

So he did not look to the "Father" for advice on the matter? He said he did, and considering that we invaded, I am assuming that his conclusion is that God favored it.

This is why I pointed it out. Assuming that he looked to God for advice (which he said he does) and assuming that God told him yes, in whatever way, the implication is that he believes God told him to invade Iraq.