Bioresonance Therapy for Nicotine Addiction

Ocelot

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A friend came round for dinner last night.She was talking about her latest attempt to give up smoking. This time she was assisted by a proffessional treatment clinic.

She mentioned she was on some sort of detox program that was removing the nicotine from her system. The clininc had told her that they can remove her physical cravings for nicotine but only she could break the habit. That she should learn for herself the difference between wanting a cigarette out of habit and wanting one because of nicotine withdrawal. That sounded to me like a reasonable phsychological trick to help break the addiction. However it was the detox part of the treatment I was interested in. How does removing nicotine from the system at an accelerated rate reduce withdrawal symtoms? I was prepared for talk of breakdown products and some Allen Carr style opinions on how nicotine actually has the reverse effect to the one which you crave. Being curious I asked for a few details. Apparently her and a work collegue has tried something called bioresonance therapy. I'd never ehard of this before. She had been asked to stick to her preferred brand of cigarette for 3 days prior to the treatment as the treatment is specific to each brand. She was then connected to electrodes which through the bioresonance process detected a signal from the nicotine in her body. This signal was isolated and reversed and sent back through her body. This was an intirguing idea - how to reverse a resonance signal? By now I was strongly suspecting quackery. However she went on to explain that she was instructed to drink plenty of water and to take detox tablets. I realised that if the process had any detoxifying effect it came from drinking plenty of water (which would do the trick on it's own) assisted by whatever detox formula was in the tablets. She showed me the tablets with a warning not the handle them (insert an embarrassed self concious laugh) because they were full of "vibrations". Apparently the pills had been charged with vibrations by being in the same machine that cancelled out the effect of nicotine in her body. The label said it all "Non-medical Lactose/Sucrose tablets" a sugar pill.

As far as I know, of no help in any medically validated detox regime. And "vibrations?" I needed to hear no more to convince me that this was mumbo jumbo.

On the other hand drinking plenty of water might explain the symptoms they were told to expect of being able to smell the nicotine coming out through their skin.

Also paying someone £250 as part of a procedure to give up smoking represents a strong commitment and improves allows cognitive dissonace to iad with the quitting process. A strong placebo effect that helps people give up smoking isn't necessarily a bad thing. So I said nothing about my doubts. hwoever my sceptical nature is well known to my friends and she went on to explain that she did check into it on the internet before going and found the telegraph and the bbc to say good things about it. Indeed when I subsequently checked on google there wasn't a hint of healthy scepticism as to the valididty of this treatment until I issued google the semi mystical pass phrase that unlocked a wealth of skeptical information: "double blind clinical study" Searching for information in medical journals or on wikipedia gave the balanced view that it's all just a bunch of woo.

She went on to say that she'd asker her doctor about it. The doctor had heard of the treatment and said that if she could afford it she should give it a go. Now this is the bit that suprised me. This was before I'd done my own research so perhaps even with no basis in science there was some clinical evidence that this procedure is worth the money. Then of course perhaps the doctor was simply approving of any attempt to give up smoking. Did the doctor keep silent as to the invalidity of this treatment for the some of the same reasons that I did? (With the obvious exception that one of my reasons was that she had already spent the money by the time I could offer advice) Perhaps the parts of the process that don't involve pseudo science - making an effort to give up, setting a date, investing time and money into the process - are effective and more so with the added belief from the placebo effect of this woo science. Perhaps some effort at detoxifying by drinking plenty of water is of assistance in the quitting process. However I feel that you seek the help of an educated professional to protect you against con artists. In this instace her doctor failed her in this regard.

This is obviously a less serious issue then parents who take their child out of radiotherapy in favour of bioresonance therapy to cure cancer. You don't require medical intervention to quit smoking. If this attempt fails my friend can always try again.

My friend had gone 24 hours without smoking - presumably more by now. Would this have still been the case if her doctor had suggested an alternative treatment. I can't tell.

What do you folks think - did the doctor do wrong?
 
Bisoresonance is BS. Here's a Quackwatch report on it for curing cancer. Doesn't work, and doesn't work for smokers, either.

I've had one of the devices in my hands, along with the manuals. Complete, utter, and absolute crap. The devices basically read your skin's electrical reisistance, and use that as the basis for the inidcations.

There is a more "advanced" form of the device that supposedly forces the toxins out of your body. The practitioner can even show them to you - a blackish/greenish substance that collects on your hands and feet where you are in contact with the electrodes. The crud is NOT coming out of your body. The crud is corroded brass from the electrodes. Just holding a chunk of brass in your hands for as long as the treatment period will cause you to get black crud on your hands.

250 pounds is a pile. Sorry your friend got taken.
 
I think the doctor certainly did wrong. It is a valid point that placebo can be a huge effect for things like addiction, so I don't think you keeping quite is a bad thing. However, for a doctor to advise someone to accept quack treatment is a different matter. Your friend now believes that this is a valid treatment, and has a statement from an actual doctor that this is true. What else might she try to treat with it?
 
I've had one of the devices in my hands, along with the manuals. Complete, utter, and absolute crap. The devices basically read your skin's electrical reisistance, and use that as the basis for the inidcations.
Sounds like a vega test machine...
 
Well I ran into my friend again last night. Six weeks now and she hasn't touched a cigarette. This attempt of her's to give up has been her most sucessful to date. Also her collegue who went with her, a 60 year old dyed in the wool 40 a day man has had similar sucess.

Small sample anecdotal evidence but the indications are that something in the process has assisted them in this attempt. Whether it be the accompanying counselling, the detoxifiaction effect, the placebo effect, cognitive dissonace ensuring she doesn't waste the £250 she spent or some other psychological effect it's quite remarkable.

As such I still didn't make any discolsures about what I'd found out about the pseudo science behind this woo treatment. I don't want to harm her attempt to continue a nicotine free existance however I did encourage her to take credit for quitting herself rather than putting it all down to this miracle treatment.

The worry is that she will become a kind of evangeleist for this treatment. She started telling us how it also worked for alergies and how it should be available on the National Health Service.

We did mention the placebo effect in passing - just sowing seeds but at what point should I intervene?

Are there any statistics indicating a breakthrough point in quitting smking after which fewer people are likely to go back to the habit?
 
Based on my (several) attempts at giving up smoking:

After you've got past the first few days, you're past the pharmacological dependence on nicotine and you're left with issues of habituality. Removing oneself from tempting situations, particularly those where there's plenty of drink and cigarettes is a good thing as is giving up with a group (shared support/loss of face).

Eventually, even after months or years you find yourself with the "why the **** not ?" question. No amount of bioresonance is going to help you there.

The longest I've given up smoking for is three years. It's a lack of desire or willpower that allows me to slip back.
 
Based on my (several) attempts at giving up smoking:

After you've got past the first few days, you're past the pharmacological dependence on nicotine and you're left with issues of habituality. Removing oneself from tempting situations, particularly those where there's plenty of drink and cigarettes is a good thing as is giving up with a group (shared support/loss of face).

Eventually, even after months or years you find yourself with the "why the **** not ?" question. No amount of bioresonance is going to help you there.

The longest I've given up smoking for is three years. It's a lack of desire or willpower that allows me to slip back.

So am I right in saying that in your opinion telling her that Bioresonance is pseudoscience now will be not more likely to trigger a relapse then telling her a few months down the line?
 
IMO that's right but so long as she's past the first two or three weeks.

If you want to help her keep off the cigarettes, don't be a "Fag Enabler", keep her out of situations that could trigger smoking.

Anyway, she probably won't believe you when you tell her that bioresonance is rubbish
 
Point out to her that the reason it works is because, deep down, she knew that if she smoked again, she'd have wasted 250 pounds.
 
The important thing is that she considers the various effects at play when deciding to recomend the treatment.

- The accompanying counselling,
- The detoxifiaction effect of drinking lots of water
- The placebo effect,
- Cognitive dissonace ensuring she doesn't waste the £250 she spent.
- Some psuedoscientific reason that doesn't show up on clinical studies.

That the reason it's not available for free on the NHS is that when people are given sham treatment or the real treatment there's no differnece in the results. That if it didn't cost the punter £250 then there's one less reason for it actually having an effect.

One important thing that she realises is that in future searching on the internet to see if something is true is a tricky business. If you search on the interent for hoax moon landing you'll find a lot of sites which appear reprutable and are a first sight very convincing. The same for spirit possession and channelling, remote viewing and precognition. Sucha possitive response from the search engines should not be taken as evidence that the effect is real. That woo healers are specifically very dangerous and whilst she might consider recomending this therapy for someone who might benefit from being tricked into giving up smoking she should think twice about recomending it for a medical condition with a less psychological componenet like alergies or goodness forbid a terminal condition like cancer.
 
What "detoxification effect of drinking lots of water" would that be, then?

Rolfe.
 
What "detoxification effect of drinking lots of water" would that be, then?

Rolfe.

This one http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/index.php/site/project/47

Your liver needs water to expel the toxins through sweat and urine. Typically woo detox programs consist of spoinky drinks or supplements to be taken with plenty of water. However the only active ingredient in them is water. So long as you drink enough water then your body will happily detox itself.

I'm sorry if you thought I was inadvertantly perpetuating the dubious nutritional advice to drink stupid amounts of water each day or the claim that ridiculous percentages of us are dangerously dehydrated.

I should make it clear that the effect I was suggesting might not be entirely woo was simply ensuring that the liver has enough water to do it's job when it's not uncommon for a few of us to allow ourselves to be a little less than optimally hydrated.

There's a scientific basis by which this part of the clinic's program might have an effect on the feeling of wellbeing of some patients so I left it in there.
 
More on water when quitting smoking. Anecdotal evidence supports water as an aid to quitting. regualr sips of water may divert from an oral fixation. Also quitters report that withdrawal syptoms are worse when dehydrated. As a smoker myself I know that when I wake with a hangover the craving for a cigarette seems enhanced. It is feasible that part of the nicotine withdrawal symptoms are partially due to the preseence of breakdown products like cotinine in the system. Ensuring optimal liver function may help here - I don't know.
 
This one http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/index.php/site/project/47

Your liver needs water to expel the toxins through sweat and urine. Typically woo detox programs consist of spoinky drinks or supplements to be taken with plenty of water. However the only active ingredient in them is water. So long as you drink enough water then your body will happily detox itself.

I'm sorry if you thought I was inadvertantly perpetuating the dubious nutritional advice to drink stupid amounts of water each day or the claim that ridiculous percentages of us are dangerously dehydrated.

I should make it clear that the effect I was suggesting might not be entirely woo was simply ensuring that the liver has enough water to do it's job when it's not uncommon for a few of us to allow ourselves to be a little less than optimally hydrated.

There's a scientific basis by which this part of the clinic's program might have an effect on the feeling of wellbeing of some patients so I left it in there.
I think you're mixing up the liver and the kidneys to some extent.
Our bodies have their own ‘detox’ mechanisms. The gut prevents bacteria and many toxins from entering the body. When harmful chemicals do enter the body, the liver acts as an extraordinary chemical factory, usually combining them with its own chemicals to make a water soluble compound that can be excreted by the kidneys. The body thus detoxifies itself. The body is re-hydrated with ordinary tap water. It is refreshed with a good night’s sleep.
The liver chemically modifies compounds into non-toxic or less toxic forms (for example ammonia being changed to urea), and also makes them water-soluble, but it's the kidneys that do the actual excretion.

The neat thing about the kidneys is that when they are healthy they can do their job within a pretty wide range of water intake parameters. If you don't drink enough to allow them to work efficiently, hey, you get thirsty. If you just drink the bare minimum, the urine simply comes out more concentrated - the toxins get excreted regardless. You won't excrete more toxins just by drinking more water - it doesn't work like that.

Also, although there are low concentrations in sweat of the same sort of things as are in urine (like urea), and the sweat gland has been described as a miniature primitive kidney tubule (got to be careful here, I studied horse sweat, which is a lot different from human sweat, and from what I remember the horse sweat was a lot more like dilute urine than human sweat was), anyway, these concentrtions are minimal and insignificant. Sweating is for keeping you cool, and you will never excrete meaningful amounts of toxins that way.

My point is simply that the liver and kidneys (when healthy) will do their job without any extra water intake, and drinking extra water will make no difference. If you do need extra water, for example because your kidneys are not functioning well, the first warning sign is an increased thirst. If you don't have this symptom, you don't need more water and you will not benefit from it.

[Unless you have Addison's Disease, best not to go there!]
More on water when quitting smoking. Anecdotal evidence supports water as an aid to quitting. regualr sips of water may divert from an oral fixation. Also quitters report that withdrawal syptoms are worse when dehydrated. As a smoker myself I know that when I wake with a hangover the craving for a cigarette seems enhanced.
That sounds quite reasonable. Satisfying the oral fixation in a different way makes sense. And of course allowing yourself to get dehydrated is bad in all sorts of ways and definitely won't help. However, taking in more water over and above what you needed to rehydrate won't help either.
It is feasible that part of the nicotine withdrawal symptoms are partially due to the preseence of breakdown products like cotinine in the system. Ensuring optimal liver function may help here - I don't know.
Pass. But how would you "ensure optimal liver function" anyway?

Rolfe.
 
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The liver chemically modifies compounds into non-toxic or less toxic forms (for example ammonia being changes to urea), and also makes them water-soluble, but it's the kidneys that do the actual excretion.


As far as I remember (this was back in the mid 1980s, so please don't shout at me too much if I'm not remembering correctly) from lectures about liver biochemistry the liver mostly modifies toxic molecules through reactions that involve adding water molecules. Maybe that's how the idea arose.

Mind you, I'd have thought that if you were so dehydrated that your liver couldn't function properly you'd be pretty sick.
 
As far as I remember (this was back in the mid 1980s, so please don't shout at me too much if I'm not remembering correctly) from lectures about liver biochemistry the liver mostly modifies toxic molecules through reactions that involve adding water molecules. Maybe that's how the idea arose.

Mind you, I'd have thought that if you were so dehydrated that your liver couldn't function properly you'd be pretty sick.
Not sure about how much water is required for that sort of metabolic process. Not a lot, I suspect.

The body will dehydrate itself in order to go on excreting - that's when you feel thirsty. It's only if things get really serious that renal function will start to become impaired. Well before hepatic function would notice, I think.

The idea that many people go around in a state of mild dehydration is itself pretty woo. People are far more likely than animals to drink more than they need, simply because of the attraction of various beverages (and I'm not just talking about alcohol here). I'm off for a cup of tea right now, not because I'm thirsty or I need it, but because I fancy a cuppa. I'm guessing that's at least partly why the specific gravity of human urine is so much less than that of the animal species I deal with.

Animals get on just fine simply drinking when they're thirsty, and do not respond at all to well-meaning suggestions that they might drink a little more (even when it is medically desirable, such as in cats prone to urolithiasis). If my PhD research contributed anything to the sum of knowledge, it was by explaining why, when you take a horse to water, you can't make it drink. (Because the horse is doing just fine by excreting both water and salts to keep cool, so its ECF salt concentrations don't rise, and it doesn't want to rehydrate until it's sure it's home, because a gut full of water isn't a good thing to have if you have a cheetah on your tail.) There's nothing special about man that requires excess drinking over and above the amount that is dictated by thirst.

Hey, that's a thought. The one time I'd like to be able to make an animal patient drink more is in cases of urolithiasis, when the salts in the urine precipitate out into stones. This is a special case, and needs to be dealt with in other ways such as modifying the diet to contain fewer of the things that, when excreted, tend to form stones (like magnesium), and changing the pH of the urine. But saying to a human patient, drink more, it will help these things be excreted, makes sense. I wonder if that's partly the source of some of this woo?

Rolfe.
 
(got to be careful here, I studied horse sweat, which is a lot different from human sweat, and from what I remember the horse sweat was a lot more like dilute urine than human sweat was)

I knew there was a good reason not to like horses.
 

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