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Biohacker Loses Joint Custody of Kids due to Atheism

Shadowdweller

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Heard this story on Snap Judgment the other night; which to be fair isn't precisely a credible news source. Nevertheless, pretty disgusting and presumably unlawful end to a child custody battle. Biohacker Rich Lee's ex-wife freaks out after he elects to implant rods in his shins and tries to gain sole custody of their children. The judge decides any possible self-mutilation issues from his "biohacking" are irrelevant, but declares that Lee's atheistic beliefs are unhealthy for the kids. Lee loses custody.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcast...es/i-sing-body-electric-snap-judgment-podcast

FTR: I believe the actual court case took place back in 2016. The child custody part of the story begins at around 22:00 or so.
 
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Heard this story on Snap Judgment the other night; which to be fair isn't precisely a credible news source. Nevertheless, pretty disgusting and presumably unlawful end to a child custody battle. Biohacker Rich Lee's ex-wife freaks out after he elects to implant rods in his shins and tries to gain sole custody of their children. The judge decides any possible self-mutilation issues from his "biohacking" are irrelevant, but declares that Lee's atheistic beliefs are unhealthy for the kids. Lee loses custody.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcast...es/i-sing-body-electric-snap-judgment-podcast

FTR: I believe the actual court case took place back in 2016. The child custody part of the story begins at around 22:00 or so.
Would it be possible for you to link to the actual judgement, as officially recorded?
 
I'll look when I get the chance. An audio excerpt of the judge's ruling is part of the podcast.

Cueing up a bit of audio in a longer stretch of audio is kind of a pain in the ass. I generally only listen to podcasts when I've got long stretches of mindless activity in front of me. Walking to and from work. Prolonged car trips. Etc. If I'm going to do that, I'm going to use that time to work through the backlog of podcasts and audiobooks I already have lined up. Unless there's some pressing personal need to isolate some audio, in a podcast I'm not already invested in, I'm not going to bother. Let me know when you find the transcript.
 
...... implant rods in his shins... self-mutilation issues from his "biohacking"....

CRISPR is bio-hacking.

huh? The only rod in a shin I know of was to brace up a broken tibia.

eta, OK, it's an adjustable rod put in after the surgeon breaks the leg bones. It's for height gain, 2-3 inches. Body modification. I don'tthink that is considered "bio-hacking".
 
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CRISPR is bio-hacking.

huh? The only rod in a shin I know of was to brace up a broken tibia.

eta, OK, it's an adjustable rod put in after the surgeon breaks the leg bones. It's for height gain, 2-3 inches. Body modification. I don'tthink that is considered "bio-hacking".
Nope. There's been some...expansion... regarding what qualifies as "biohacking" in recent years. Rich Lee is a grinder, an individual who chooses to implant garage-made "cybernetic" devices into himself. The rods in this case were a type of implanted armor...based on Lee's account anyway. I'm unfamiliar with the specifics of grinding, but the implication is that surgical implantation is NOT performed by a qualified and licensed physician. That being one reason Lee would have had the implantation performed without true anesthesia. And supposedly posted the procedure to youtube.

There is, clearly, a certain amount of dangerous crazy involved.
 
It almost sounds like an excuse, rather than the reason.

Which is why I'm curious to see the transcript of the Judge's decision.

---

I understand the podcast in the OP has an excerpt of the audio, but for me a person's reasoning is much better examined and discussed in writing. I can see if the audio clip is taken in or out of context. I can see how each part of the context informs the other parts. I can more easily copy, paste, and quote passages of interest to the discussion. Etc. At that point, if there is some claim of tone or inflection that changes the meaning of the written words, we can check that against the audio record. But in all the long future history of this case, as case law and precedent, the written record will be by far the most important determining factor in the interpretation of this decision. So I'd like to use it here if we can.
 
Regrettably Utah court records are behind a pay wall, so..not going to happen. And that's presuming that personal stuff like custody determinations are accessible to the public anyway. Might be up for typing out a transcript of the relevant portions of the podcast (including judicial excerpts), as I have time. Yes, there are significant accuracy / objectivity concerns from a narrative created solely by a single, interested party.

The Atheism-related part of the claim starts around 30:00 (out of 36:00) so it's comparatively short if anyone cares.
 
Nope. There's been some...expansion... regarding what qualifies as "biohacking" in recent years. Rich Lee is a grinder, an individual who chooses to implant garage-made "cybernetic" devices into himself. The rods in this case were a type of implanted armor...based on Lee's account anyway. I'm unfamiliar with the specifics of grinding, but the implication is that surgical implantation is NOT performed by a qualified and licensed physician. That being one reason Lee would have had the implantation performed without true anesthesia. And supposedly posted the procedure to youtube.

There is, clearly, a certain amount of dangerous crazy involved.

I remember hearing when I was kid about someone who tried to armor himself up by applying hot plastic sheets to his shins. Somehow they failed to bond to his skin and instead caused severe burns...
 
I remember hearing when I was kid about someone who tried to armor himself up by applying hot plastic sheets to his shins. Somehow they failed to bond to his skin and instead caused severe burns...

Good grief. Of course removable athletic shin-guards are a thing you can use to protect the shins, so I don't see the point of either surgery or trying to bond something directly to the skin.
 
Judge: "As I sat here listening to this I realised that I have 2 screws in my leg because of a motorcycle accident, I have corneas in both eyes, I'd be blind without them, I know that plastic surgery is an accepted part of society, breast augmentation [inaudible]... and what the respondent does or doesn't do with his body is not an issue in this case unless it affects the children negatively, and on a whole I find that it hasn't and it doesn't, and in fact there was some inference that they were kind of proud that their dad had some things that made him kind of cool. Beyond that I've also found some evidence that he's a good dad, he loves his kids,[inaudible...]* he's busy with work, he's busy with biohacking, I don't find that troubling, the biohacking I don't find that troubling."

Closing statement by the mother's attorney (read from a transcript by the podcast host): "Richard has openly rejected not only the idea of personal reality but the very religious tradition upon which western morality is based. He insisted that the children be raised in an atheistic environment, he has openly stated his contempt for religion. With their mother the children receive traditional moral direction."

Judge: "The factors that a court needs to look at is the past conduct and demonstrated moral standards of the parties."

[inaudible]

Judge: "Much was made about the respondent's alleged atheistic lifestyle, and while this court can't take any position on religion, at least the petitioner stated that she would like to give her kids the chance to accept or reject religion. I'm not sure that the respondent would be willing to do that."

Then the dude starts to comment on what the judge was saying.

Judge: "I think it's in the kids best interest not to have a 50/50 custody arrangement. I believe and find that it is in the kid's best interest to have mom be the sole custodial parent. And I so conclude. After the weekend I want the new arrangement to start."

As those are separate quotes in the podcast it's not clear if there was or was not more said in between.

*The biohacker guy is speaking over the audio during these sections that I've marked as inaudible. IT's possible that the judge says something that he doesn't want us to hear, but they are very brief and in the context it doesn't seem likely. Others can form their own opinion by listening to the audio. You may be able to make out the judge's words, but I don't feel like spending the time repeatedly listening to it in order to do so.
 
Closing statement by the mother's attorney (read from a transcript by the podcast host): "Richard has openly rejected not only the idea of personal reality but the very religious tradition upon which western morality is based. He insisted that the children be raised in an atheistic environment, he has openly stated his contempt for religion. With their mother the children receive traditional moral direction."

Correction: the highlighted should read "personal morality" not "reality". Weird mistake on my part. I read through it again and the rest should be correct. Too late to edit, though.
 
Judge: "As I sat here listening to this I realised that I have 2 screws in my leg because of a motorcycle accident, I have corneas in both eyes, I'd be blind without them, I know that plastic surgery is an accepted part of society, breast augmentation [inaudible]... and what the respondent does or doesn't do with his body is not an issue in this case unless it affects the children negatively, and on a whole I find that it hasn't and it doesn't, and in fact there was some inference that they were kind of proud that their dad had some things that made him kind of cool. Beyond that I've also found some evidence that he's a good dad, he loves his kids,[inaudible...]* he's busy with work, he's busy with biohacking, I don't find that troubling, the biohacking I don't find that troubling."

Closing statement by the mother's attorney (read from a transcript by the podcast host): "Richard has openly rejected not only the idea of personal reality but the very religious tradition upon which western morality is based. He insisted that the children be raised in an atheistic environment, he has openly stated his contempt for religion. With their mother the children receive traditional moral direction."

Judge: "The factors that a court needs to look at is the past conduct and demonstrated moral standards of the parties."

[inaudible]

Judge: "Much was made about the respondent's alleged atheistic lifestyle, and while this court can't take any position on religion, at least the petitioner stated that she would like to give her kids the chance to accept or reject religion. I'm not sure that the respondent would be willing to do that."

Then the dude starts to comment on what the judge was saying.

Judge: "I think it's in the kids best interest not to have a 50/50 custody arrangement. I believe and find that it is in the kid's best interest to have mom be the sole custodial parent. And I so conclude. After the weekend I want the new arrangement to start."

As those are separate quotes in the podcast it's not clear if there was or was not more said in between.

*The biohacker guy is speaking over the audio during these sections that I've marked as inaudible. IT's possible that the judge says something that he doesn't want us to hear, but they are very brief and in the context it doesn't seem likely. Others can form their own opinion by listening to the audio. You may be able to make out the judge's words, but I don't feel like spending the time repeatedly listening to it in order to do so.

Thank you. Food for thought.
 

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