Bin Laden's son calls for peace

Puppycow

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Puppycow
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I don't want to make too much of this, but I think it's worth noting:
Bin Laden's son calls for peace
It's somewhat encouraging that Osama bin Laden's own son, who was training in al Qaeda's camps at age 14, is now calling for his father to change his ways. I don't imagine that it will make a big difference, but it makes me a little more optimistic about human nature and the possibility of some people to resist brainwashing, and instead stand up for something good.

He said he left al Qaeda because he did not want to be associated with killing civilians. He said his father did not try to dissuade him from leaving al Qaeda.

"I told him I was going, and wanted to try life and see what it was like outside because, from a young age I was with my father, and I only saw and heard my father and his friends. My father told me, 'If this is what your choice -- your decision -- is, what can I tell you? I like you to be with me, but this is your decision.' "

So father and son went their separate ways.
...
Sitting by his side throughout the hour-and-a-half interview was his wife, Zaina. The two are organizing a multi-month horserace through North Africa in the name of peace, set to kick off this year.

But getting sponsors to line up behind the name bin Laden has been difficult. "It would probably have been easier to do a race without having Omar's name, but then the race would just be a race, it wouldn't be a race for peace," his wife said.
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But to be serious, I really am quite happy that someone could overcome those circumstances and become a peace advocate.
 
Puppycow said:
I don't want to make too much of this, but I think it's worth noting:
Bin Laden's son calls for peace
It's somewhat encouraging that Osama bin Laden's own son, who was training in al Qaeda's camps at age 14, is now calling for his father to change his ways.
Click to expand...

What would be encouraging is if the son could actually call his father what he is, a terrorist. But he won't. Furthermore, it is not merely the tactics they use which makes Al Qaeda reprehensible, their goals (imposition of Sharia law under a global caliphate) are also inhuman, and these sort of statements serves to mask that reality.

I don't imagine that it will make a big difference, but it makes me a little more optimistic about human nature and the possibility of some people to resist brainwashing, and instead stand up for something good.
Click to expand...

Is he standing up, though? Not really.
 
Ziggurat said:
What would be encouraging is if the son could actually call his father what he is, a terrorist. But he won't. Furthermore, it is not merely the tactics they use which makes Al Qaeda reprehensible, their goals (imposition of Sharia law under a global caliphate) are also inhuman, and these sort of statements serves to mask that reality.

Is he standing up, though? Not really.
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Well, considering how he was raised, it's something. Of course his father is a terrorist, and I'm totally against al Qaeda's ends as well as its means. But it's not easy for a son to totally go against his father, and he does have a point that even the US has some blood on its hands for Vietnam. I'm not sure what the moral equivalence of dropping napalm on Vietnamese villagers is with 9/11. I'm sure 9/11 is worse, but what we did to that poor little naked Vietnamese girl running for her life and all the other children that camera recorded seems pretty shameful too. Was that terrorism or morally equivalent to terrorism? I don't know the answer, but it's a legitamite question to ask.
 
Puppycow said:
...Was that terrorism or morally equivalent to terrorism? I don't know the answer, but it's a legitamite question to ask.
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Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. The US thought it had a theory and that Vietnamese wanted freedom and were stupidly wrong but al Qaeda is all malice and stupidity. They had the single only method of terrorism capable of wiping out the entire government of the US but decided to make a militarily pointless hole in the Pentagon instead. And you can't compare the levels of desire for totally pointless violence for the sake of hatred alone.
 
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latent aaaack said:
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. The US thought it had a theory and that Vietnamese wanted freedom and were stupidly wrong but al Qaeda is all malice and stupidity. They had the single only method of terrorism capable of wiping out the entire government of the US but decided to make a militarily pointless hole in the Pentagon instead. And you can't compare the levels of desire for totally pointless violence for the sake of hatred alone.
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I suppose you are right. Still, it may have been hard for the Vietnamese to discern that our motives weren't malicious, however (and, many Americans called them 'gooks,' so maybe there was a little malice as well as stupidity). And, maybe in al Qaeda's mind what they are doing is noble and righteous.
 
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Call me a cynic, but my first thought was that the guy's most effective course for peace would be to kill his father.
 
Puppycow said:
I'm sure 9/11 is worse, but what we did to that poor little naked Vietnamese girl running for her life and all the other children that camera recorded seems pretty shameful too.
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Except we didn't do it.
http://www.warbirdforum.com/vphoto.htm
The bomb was dropped by South Vietnamese forces. NVA was operating in the area, and the pilot mistakenly thought a group of people fleeing the NVA were actually NVA combatants themselves.

Was that terrorism or morally equivalent to terrorism? I don't know the answer, but it's a legitamite question to ask.
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I do know the answer. And it wasn't terrorism or its moral equivalent. It was a tragic accident, one that we didn't even commit. But such is the power of propaganda that the facts of the case are forgotten, and replaced by a blame-America mythology.
 
To the OP, I'd be careful about saying Islamists are brainwashed. Brainwashing means deleting all that was previously known, and installing it with something new. The high proportion of Islamists go about their day to day life as it was before. It is their view of the world that is, in a sense, reprogrammed.
 
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Undesired Walrus said:
To the OP, I'd be careful about saying Islamists are brainwashed. Brainwashing means deleting all that was previously known, and installing it with something new. The high proportion of Islamists go about their day to day life as it was before. It is their view of the world that is, in a sense, reprogrammed.
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OK, I was using it in the colloquial sense of the word. I suppose all cults and religions use "reprogramming" or simply "programming" of one sort or another. I think of this as a form of brainwashing, but maybe I'm misusing the term.
 
Ziggurat said:
Except we didn't do it.
http://www.warbirdforum.com/vphoto.htm
The bomb was dropped by South Vietnamese forces. NVA was operating in the area, and the pilot mistakenly thought a group of people fleeing the NVA were actually NVA combatants themselves.



I do know the answer. And it wasn't terrorism or its moral equivalent. It was a tragic accident, one that we didn't even commit. But such is the power of propaganda that the facts of the case are forgotten, and replaced by a blame-America mythology.
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OK. I'm basically pro-American, but even patriotic Americans shouldn't imagine that our doo-doo never stinks.
 
latent aaaack said:
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. The US thought it had a theory and that Vietnamese wanted freedom and were stupidly wrong but al Qaeda is all malice and stupidity. They had the single only method of terrorism capable of wiping out the entire government of the US but decided to make a militarily pointless hole in the Pentagon instead. And you can't compare the levels of desire for totally pointless violence for the sake of hatred alone.
Click to expand...

I have wondered about that one. The pilot was apparently headed straight for the White House, then then turned and hit the Pentagon instead. Was he trying to make a final point?

I doubt he would have wiped out the 'entire government', however, if he had hit the White House.
 
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TragicMonkey said:
Call me a cynic, but my first thought was that the guy's most effective course for peace would be to kill his father.
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I thought the same thing (after I read your post. ;) )

However, at this point, his father probably has a reward on his son's head.

On a lighter note, he could run as VP with Obama.

Obama/Osama-get it? Subtle, eh? :p
 
Puppycow said:
Bin Laden's son calls for peace
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Standard modern media garbage, lus the usual lack of fact checking.

Osama's kid calls (Pizza Hut) for a (carry out) pizza, and the media reports only part of the story, in this case, only part of the key word.

Nothing to see here. ;)

DR
 
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a_unique_person said:
I have wondered about that one. The pilot was apparently headed straight for the White House, then then turned and hit the Pentagon instead. Was he trying to make a final point?

I doubt he would have wiped out the 'entire government', however, if he had hit the White House.
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I meant that they could've destroyed the Capitol and/or Whitehouse and at any time. Even if they struck the White House they didn't even coordinate it with when the president would likely be there. I don't think even a nuclear attack would've been able to accomplish that, the killing of all or most of congress and the president, since it would show up on radar first.

But more to the point, beheading journalists (which the 9/11 mastermind allegedly did) certainly proves false any notion that they're comparable to the US in their malice and wonton acts of Charles Manson-like violence. Just because a war kills more innocent people than a terrorist attack doesn't make those responsible for the war necessarily all Charles Mansons times 10000.
 
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If I was the world's most wanted man's son, I would be wearing a shirt with a big peace sign on it everywhere that read "please don't shoot me" on the back.
 
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