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Bent bolts and CD theory

leftysergeant

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
18,863
Going through some of SlimeBuster's vids on YouTube, I noticed something which may address the question of the use of explosives, at least on the perimeter columns, of the towers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJd7Smu0k7M

At about 6:00 to 6:45, he shows several perimeter columns from the ends where they were bolted together.

The bolts are bent and broken off at the threads. It would appear to me that these columns were bent outward, relatively gently, until the bolts snapped at their weakest point, which would be the threaed ends. I would be at a loss to explain how that could possibly be done with the use of explosives. Explosives, from what I have observed, would have more likely just sheared the bolts more or less cleanly along the plane of the joints. If this is typical of the damage observed in the rubble, it does argue very much for progressive collapse. The weight of falling rubble piling up inside the walls, trying to move downward under gravity, but delayed somewhat by the minimal resistance of the floor slabs, would be the exact mechanism to so shove the panels of columns outward. Does anyone see this differently?

On this same video, at about 6;48, there is a brief view of some of the steel showing eutectic melting. Perhaps it is just something about the different resolution as compared to other pictures I have seen, but this looks an awful lot like the acid etching I did in high school to show the crystaline nature of case-hardened steel. This supports my pet theory that this melting was the result of sulphuric acid formation from steam and burning rubber and storage batteries in WTC 7. Agree or disagree with this?
 
I agree in part, I saw that video and that evidence months ago, do not forget about HCl and carbon reduction as well on the steel there are several chemical reactions that can account for that.
 
I agree in part, I saw that video and that evidence months ago, do not forget about HCl and carbon reduction as well on the steel there are several chemical reactions that can account for that.

HCl? From burning PVC?

Makes some sense, but it would not contribute much to the pyrites found in the thinned steel, or the deposits of copper, AFAIK.
 
HCl? From burning PVC?

Makes some sense, but it would not contribute much to the pyrites found in the thinned steel, or the deposits of copper, AFAIK.


Pyrites show it was a low temperature process, probably in the rubble pile. Since pyrites would burn out at 520c.
 
I knew pyrites was roasted to refine iron, but I didn't know it was at that low a temperature. This is a good argument, then, against thermite.
 
82%of the total amount of sulfur was removed from IBC-106 at a temperature of 500°C.

http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/10132269-ZX91Fk/native/10132269.pdf

Iron in the form of FeS 2 is a strong
fluxing agent in a neutral or mildly reducing atmosphere. In oxidizing zones, FeS 2 will t),pically
produce SO 2 and form ferric oxide iFe203) at temperatures near 520°C. In reducing zones,
pyrite (FeS 2) forms a partial melt of ferrous sulfide (FeS) beginning at about 280°C and
continuing to about 600°C.
http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/10180692-bseoOC/10180692.PDF
 
Going through some of SlimeBuster's vids on YouTube, I noticed something which may address the question of the use of explosives, at least on the perimeter columns, of the towers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJd7Smu0k7M

At about 6:00 to 6:45, he shows several perimeter columns from the ends where they were bolted together.

The bolts are bent and broken off at the threads. It would appear to me that these columns were bent outward, relatively gently, until the bolts snapped at their weakest point, which would be the threaed ends. I would be at a loss to explain how that could possibly be done with the use of explosives. Explosives, from what I have observed, would have more likely just sheared the bolts more or less cleanly along the plane of the joints. If this is typical of the damage observed in the rubble, it does argue very much for progressive collapse. The weight of falling rubble piling up inside the walls, trying to move downward under gravity, but delayed somewhat by the minimal resistance of the floor slabs, would be the exact mechanism to so shove the panels of columns outward. Does anyone see this differently?

On this same video, at about 6;48, there is a brief view of some of the steel showing eutectic melting. Perhaps it is just something about the different resolution as compared to other pictures I have seen, but this looks an awful lot like the acid etching I did in high school to show the crystaline nature of case-hardened steel. This supports my pet theory that this melting was the result of sulphuric acid formation from steam and burning rubber and storage batteries in WTC 7. Agree or disagree with this?

Bent bolts are an indicator of an unexpected load path--one we didn't design for.
WE go to great lengths to make sure fasteners are placed in shear and/or tension only. "Bolts in bending" is a term that makes the hair on the back of an engineers neck stand up. It is fingernails on the chalkboard of design.
 
Small amounts of thermite heat-weakened column splice bolt thread

Going through some of SlimeBuster's vids on YouTube, I noticed something which may address the question of the use of explosives, at least on the perimeter columns, of the towers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJd7Smu0k7M

At about 6:00 to 6:45, he shows several perimeter columns from the ends where they were bolted together.

The bolts are bent and broken off at the threads. It would appear to me that these columns were bent outward, relatively gently, until the bolts snapped at their weakest point, which would be the threaed ends. I would be at a loss to explain how that could possibly be done with the use of explosives. Explosives, from what I have observed, would have more likely just sheared the bolts more or less cleanly along the plane of the joints.


Leftysergeant,

Recall that I have proposed that small amounts of thermite could have been placed inside box columns for the purpose of heat-weakened just the top threaded region of the A325 column splice bolts. The goal was to reduce the moment capacity of the bolts.

Isn't what you are discussing consistent with this?

Max
 
Reported derailattempt.
Max. You are no longer even remotely amusing. Please stop the nonsense, and quit trying to derail everything backtou your BS pie-in-the-sky.
Life's too short for this ******
 
Reported derailattempt.
Max. You are no longer even remotely amusing. Please stop the nonsense, and quit trying to derail everything backtou your BS pie-in-the-sky.
Life's too short for this ******


Read the thread's title, and then please explain why my post is not directly related.
 
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