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Ben Affleck and Sam Harris clash on Real Time

Jono

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Jono
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vln9D81eO60

There are, I just noticed, several articles (guardian, daily.uk etc) about the 'debate' between Ben Affleck, Sam Harris and Bill Maher on liberal principles with regards to criticism (and failure of doing so) of islamic theocracies et al.

Have anyone of you seen this yet?
 
Monketey Ghost said:
I have. IMO, Affleck called them on their blanket bigotry and it was great!
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What did Harris say (on that show) that was bigotted? [mind you, I'm not saying that he's never said something of that order, elsewhere]

I thought Affleck came across, a little bit, as emotionally charged and misunderstood what Harris was actually saying, which in part was the issue Harris described with liberals not being consistent with liberal principles.
 
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Jono said:
What did Harris say (on that show) that was bigotted? [mind you, I'm not saying that he's never said something of that order, elsewhere]

I thought Affleck came across, a little bit, as emotionally charged and misunderstood what Harris was actually saying, which in part was the issue Harris described with liberals not being consistent with liberal principles.
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Affleck was reacting to the violation of PC that Maher and Harris were committing by mentioning some of the better known and less savory aspects of Islamic culture. That demanded a purely emotional response that Affleck, as an actor, has been trained to give. If you want intellectual discourse, you might not want to try talking to people who play pretend for a living.
 
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Chris L said:
Affleck was reacting to the violation of PC that Maher and Harris were committing by mentioning some of the better known and less savory aspects of Islamic culture. That demanded a purely emotional response that Affleck, as am actor, has been trained to give. If you want intellectual discourse, you might not want to try talking to people who play pretend for a living.
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Or, blanket statements were made and Affleck quite possibly knows actual Muslim people who don't fit the emotionally driven stereotype.
 
I like Ben Affleck generally, both as an actor (surprise, surprise) and as a humanitarian, but in this clip he exemplified why I find such discussion groups worse than useless. He asked questions but refused to allow answers. Everyone spoke over everyone.
 
I'll have to have a look at that when I get home- not the kind of thing to review at work.
My memory of the exchange may be wrong. I do recall statements being made that I'd have strongly disagreed with as soon as they were made.
I'm not sure why actors are fair game for castigation. He was being asked questions by a guy who's a smart ass for a living and a flamethrower.
 
tsig said:
Beheading people tends to raise the emotions.
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Sure. If all Muslims participated in such things there'd be good reason for the bigotry.
My neighbor's family is Muslim and there haven't been any toppings.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
Sure. If all Muslims participated in such things there'd be good reason for the bigotry.
My neighbor's family is Muslim and there haven't been any toppings.
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Some Muslims are beheading people is a statement of fact, not bigotry.
 
tsig said:
Some Muslims are beheading people is a statement of fact, not bigotry.
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True. It's a tiny minority of extremists. That's the objection. It leaves any statement that doesn't include that information open to a "Hey, hey! Whoa there!"

Kind of like if people judged all skeptics based on the worst actions of a tiny minority, I'd be saying, "Now, just hold on, point of order..."
 
Hypothetical, present-day scenario: A Roman Catholic sect goes rogue and starts waging acts of terrorism - including mass murder, rapes, stonings, and systematic beheadings - on nonbelievers. Their goal is a military takeover of one or more countries to establish the "kingdom of heaven on Earth" in preparation for the JC Magical Mystery Tour 2.0.

How would rank and file Catholics (or other Christians) respond? How should they?
 
My favorite part is when the gentleman on the far left of the table says we can't broadly label Muslims as extremists when there are people who speak out against it...and all those people were shot or jailed for their outspokenness.

And a significant portion of people in those countries support those attacks or imprisonments.
 
kajata said:
My favorite part is when the gentleman on the far left of the table says we can't broadly label Muslims as extremists when there are people who speak out against it...and all those people were shot or jailed for their outspokenness.

And a significant portion of people in those countries support those attacks or imprisonments.
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This really applies to some degree in all societies where the extremists have the guns.
 
The Shrike said:
Hypothetical, present-day scenario: A Roman Catholic sect goes rogue and starts waging acts of terrorism - including mass murder, rapes, stonings, and systematic beheadings - on nonbelievers. Their goal is a military takeover of one or more countries to establish the "kingdom of heaven on Earth" in preparation for the JC Magical Mystery Tour 2.0.

How would rank and file Catholics (or other Christians) respond? How should they?
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Pretty much how they reacted to the priest buggering children episode: that's not the church it is just those people. We are not those people.

Or how the Mormons deal with polygamist: that is not an accepted Mormon practice, those are just rogue elements who self identify as Mormon, but who are not really mormon.

That is not consistent with my religion. Those people do not represent me. Sounds familiar.
 
kajata said:
My favorite part is when the gentleman on the far left of the table says we can't broadly label Muslims as extremists when there are people who speak out against it...and all those people were shot or jailed for their outspokenness.

And a significant portion of people in those countries support those attacks or imprisonments.
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I'd figure they're pretty scared of getting outed by people who think they aren't Muslim enough.

Happened in Germany during the 30's and 40's wrt National Socialists.

In fact just yesterday I was watching a doc where a German woman from Munich was describing a mass hanging, she openly remarked that it was dreadful, and the man in front of her turned out to be a local National Socialist leader who ordered her to appear the next morning at their local fun house.
 
Chris L said:
Affleck was reacting to the violation of PC that Maher and Harris were committing by mentioning some of the better known and less savory aspects of Islamic culture. That demanded a purely emotional response that Affleck, as an actor, has been trained to give. If you want intellectual discourse, you might not want to try talking to people who play pretend for a living.
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That is terribly unfair to actors. You're basically saying that any opinion they have is worthless.

Where did Harris' 20% figure come from, if not his own ass ?
 
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