Belief in the virgin birth vs. evolution

[Flaherty]

This distressingCNN article of August 15 describes the growing acceptance of mysticism in the USA compared to the rest of the world.

Today marks the Roman Catholics' Feast of the Assumption, honoring the moment that they believe God brought the Virgin Mary into Heaven. So here's a fact appropriate for the day: Americans are three times as likely to believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus (83 percent) as in evolution (28 percent).

So this day is an opportunity to look at perhaps the most fundamental divide between America and the rest of the industrialized world: faith. Religion remains central to American life, and is getting more so, in a way that is true of no other industrialized country, with the possible exception of South Korea...

...The faith in the Virgin Birth reflects the way American Christianity is becoming less intellectual and more mystical over time. The percentage of Americans who believe in the Virgin Birth actually rose five points in the latest poll.

My grandfather was fairly typical of his generation: A devout and active Presbyterian elder, he nonetheless believed firmly in evolution and regarded the Virgin Birth as a pious legend. Those kinds of mainline Christians are vanishing, replaced by evangelicals. Since 1960, the number of Pentecostalists has increased fourfold, while the number of Episcopalians has dropped almost in half...

...The Virgin Mary is an interesting prism through which to examine America's emphasis on faith because most Biblical scholars regard the evidence for the Virgin Birth, and for Mary's assumption into Heaven (which was proclaimed as Catholic dogma only in 1950), as so shaky that it pretty much has to be a leap of faith. As the Catholic theologian Hans Küng puts it in "On Being a Christian," the Virgin Birth is a "collection of largely uncertain, mutually contradictory, strongly legendary" narratives, an echo of virgin birth myths that were widespread in many parts of the ancient world...

...Yet despite the lack of scientific or historical evidence, and despite the doubts of Biblical scholars, America is so pious that not only do 91 percent of Christians say they believe in the Virgin Birth, but so do an astonishing 47 percent of U.S. non-Christians.

I'm not denigrating anyone's beliefs. And I don't pretend to know why America is so much more infused with religious faith than the rest of the world. But I do think that we're in the middle of another religious Great Awakening, and that while this may bring spiritual comfort to many, it will also mean a growing polarization within our society.

But mostly, I'm troubled by the way the great intellectual traditions of Catholic and Protestant churches alike are withering, leaving the scholarly and religious worlds increasingly antagonistic. I worry partly because of the time I've spent with self-satisfied and unquestioning mullahs and imams, for the Islamic world is in crisis today in large part because of a similar drift away from a rich intellectual tradition and toward the mystical. The heart is a wonderful organ, but so is the brain.

I do not think it is a coincidence that the last 40 years have seen a rise in paranormal beliefs and a rise in the acceptance of the more fanciful religious miracles. A culture gullible enough to believe in ESP and pyramid power is primed for belief in vigin births, angels, and other elements of the religious paranormal.* It's almost as if the Enlightenment never happened. Among evangelicals and pentacostals, to question the veracity of a literal belief in the Bible's miracles, to suggest they were the product of a superstitious pre-science culture, and to propose that there is still great ethical value in the Bible even if one dispenses with its miracles, is to invite the label "liberal theologian" and to have all of one's views summarily dismissed without a hearing.


* I know some of you will think "religious paranormal" is redundant, but I don't and I'm an atheist. I subscribe to Gould's notion that theology in its proper realm is still a very useful tool. In other words, it's possible to believe some of Jesus' teachings were useful and even that he was divine, but also believe virgin births, rising from the dead, walking on water, etc. are fictions.

 

[Yahweh]

The faith in the Virgin Birth reflects the way American Christianity is becoming less intellectual and more mystical over time.

No ◊◊◊◊.

I blame the lack of educational funding. Another person posted some statistics that showed spirituality was inversely proportional to level of education.

 

[Nucular]

Pedant's Corner...

I'm not sure the term 'mystical' or 'mysticism' is entirely appropriate to to apply here. At least that implies some kind of numinous experience or understanding, or some kind of awareness of 'otherness' to hang beliefs onto, however you interpret that. This kind of thing isn't mysticism per se, it's simply 'religious', or whatever. Mysticism doesn't usually apply to belief in the historicity of events I don't think.

 

[Gregor]

I can't explain it, either.

With the access to scholarly books on religious topics in the past 25 years, the Jesus seminar, and etc., how is it that people are credulous enough to accept this tripe?

Where in the past people maybe did not have access - now, it's just a matter of laziness.

 

[BNiles]

Faith is deaf as well as blind.

I took a humanities course in college about fairytales. It talked about how not only did they all teach similar morals, but also how every society throughout history had the same stories with slight changes. These changes could be traced to simple things relative to that society…i.e. locality, food source, water supply, etc. The shared stories are of topics like creation, flood & rebirth, end times. Even simple stories of morals like Red Riding hood have been repeated in over 20 societies throughout history. Details are changed, but the message is the same. Home is safe and the world is dangerous.

Many of these stories took root in their religion as well. As we all know, man has a certain propensity for exaggeration. Especially when trying to make a point (or win an argument). Samson wasn’t just a strong man, he was the strongest man. Goliath wasn’t just a big man, he was a giant. Considering that these stories were first handed down through oral tradition, it’s not such a stretch to think that exaggeration entered the mix just to keep the interest of the younger audience.

What amazement would Jesus hold if he had come into this world by the same means as Akbar the camel washer? No no no…the son of God must have had a divine birth. Why is it so easy for Christians to see the fairytale lineage of other societies, but not in their own?

 

[Bentspoon]

Randi answered it this week

in his commentary.

They simlpy say in a poll that they believe because that is what they are supposed to say.

The vast majority of the religious don't believe in it at all and simply say that they do to conform.

If my parents answered this poll, they would both answer that they believe in God (or the virgin birth or the stopping of the sum etc etc etc). But they do nothing to embrace it. They do not go to church, they do not pray, they do not do anything to affirm their faith in this absurdity. They admit to no communication with their deity via any of the senses. They do not burn candles, sacrifice animals or pay homage in any way to this most powerful of deities, yet they will tell you they believe it all.

It is just like the woo-woo peddlers in Randi's commentary. Oh yeah they could save the world, and make trillions too with their perpetual motion machines.

However, they are just too busy to do it now.

They will say it over and over again, they believe in God, they believe in miracles, they believe in the literalness of the bible - but their actions bely them.

Praying to God at your kid's football game tells it all to me. Those that do are playing a game with something that should be profound - oh yeah they believe.

So it will be with polls. The only way to get at the truth is to probe into actions not answers to silly questions - polls mean nothing.

Bentspoon

 

[Flaherty]

Re: Randi answered it this week

They simlpy say in a poll that they believe because that is what they are supposed to say.

The vast majority of the religious don't believe in it at all and simply say that they do to conform.

That's a good point I had not considered. I hope it's right.

 

[diddidit]

No ◊◊◊◊.

I blame the lack of educational funding. Another person posted some statistics that showed spirituality was inversely proportional to level of education.

And some fundie, Falwell perhaps, said that "intellectualism" was one of the greatest threats to christianity.

did

 

[Thanz]

I am shocked that only 28% believe in evolution. It seems that he gets this from a Gallup poll, but no other source is mentioned.

I'd be curious as to the what the whole poll contained, how the questions were phrased and what the 28% actually represents.

 

[Bob Klase]

...Yet despite the lack of scientific or historical evidence, and despite the doubts of Biblical scholars, America is so pious that not only do 91 percent of Christians say they believe in the Virgin Birth, but so do an astonishing 47 percent of U.S. non-Christians.

I'd really be interested in how the non-Christians reconcile that. They think God was just screwing around?

 

[nightwind]

Virgin Birth

I'm sorry, but a Virgin birth?

Has there ever been a documented case of such, other than some Artificial insemination?

I just believe that maybe Joseph was doing more than leading the donkey around.

Reminds me of the girl a few years ago trying to convince us that she became pregnant, from just swimming in a public swimming pool. Chances pretty slim.