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BBC sCAM series coming up

Asolepius

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Some of you may have seen this trailed recently. BBC2 on Tuesdays starting 24 January, 9 pm (acupuncture first part, healing second, herbs third). I was contacted by the BBC a few months back, asking for advice, so I was expecting it about now. Don't miss it. Some bits have been leaked, so watch out for some of the well known woos spouting their usual fantasies. Michael Dixon will be on of course, advocating spiritual healing on the NHS. Some of these people have academic affiliations, so I have it on very good authority that letters to their heads of schools should be sent, protesting about the promotion of pseudoscience under the banner of their universities. PM me for details.
 
Still not allowed to post links (never knew I was so relient on them)!

xxx.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programme.shtml?day=tuesday&service_id=4224&filename=20060124/20060124_2100_4224_18914_60
Alternative Medicine
Tue 24 Jan, 9:00 pm - 10:00 pm 60mins BBC2

Kathy Sykes investigates the 2,000 year-old practice of acupuncture. She discovers powerful evidence that ancient Chinese doctors had found a way to manipulate the power of our own minds.

Kathy begins her journey in China where she hears and sees powerful evidence that acupuncture works. The most astonishing is a scene in a Chinese hospital in which doctors perform open heart surgery on a young woman using acupuncture instead of a general anaesthetic. In China, she discovers, acupuncture is used alongside western medicine and, at times, as a replacement.

So, what does western science make of these claims? Kathy meets the key scientists both in the UK and in the US who have put them to the test.


I expect that the preseneter will blindly lap up everything she is told.
 
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Kathy Sykes seems like a bright girl.

Supposed to be Thinking Man's Totty too. I quite fancy her on Mind Games.
 
So there it was.

Open heart surgery yes, strangely ambiguous language about 'numbing' of the chest - local anaesthetic or acupuncture?

Basically the first half of this docu was tripe; the second half had some intriguing things.

I was especially interested that Edzard Ernst seemed to acknowledge the American trial she bigged up did prove an effect for that particular condition: no mention of 'pending replication', and no mention of what was a valiant effort to create a sham, but ultimately seemed to me unconvincing.

Ditto her own study, and simply not enough about protocol was mentioned. Is it published anywhere yet? Statements like "we even tried to make sure the acupuncturist didn't know which condition the subject was allocated to until the very last moment", as though t'were the pinnacle of cutting edge methodological excellence, raise my eyebrow.

I realise the difficulty of fully double-blinding such a study; but I really think, with the sham acupuncture they showed with the self-concealing needle, that could be achieved if always contained in a tube (which could, of course, be opaque instead of translucent).

Basically, a few interesting things with lots of unnecessary filler - and it's so frustrating that just not enough protocol issues were described, and no acknowledgement of methodological limitations, or what they might mean, were given. Professor for the public understanding of science, indeed! She's more attractive than Dawkins, and no mistake, but this certainly lacked a certain something.
 
I was particularly disappointed that they didn't follow up the migraine study with the later and larger one which showed no effect at all. As you say Nucular, there was almost no detail on the MRI protocol - sample size would be especially interesting I should think. I only counted 2 subjects. George Lewith was as usual there with bells on, and his MRI study had some obvious flaws.
 
I may have missed something (I had a couple of distractions towards the end of the programme) but I didn't see how the blinding in the MRI experiment worked. They were talking about a particular effect on the brain when an inserted needle was twisted. This was also supposed to be accompanied by a sensation (presumably caused by the twisting) felt by the subject. How could this have been effectively blinded?
 
I don't care which, but can we stick with one thread? Having the discussion split between two or three is doing in my multitasking circuit. I'd go for the other one, just on the basis it has more posts.

Rolfe.
 
I may have missed something (I had a couple of distractions towards the end of the programme) but I didn't see how the blinding in the MRI experiment worked. They were talking about a particular effect on the brain when an inserted needle was twisted. This was also supposed to be accompanied by a sensation (presumably caused by the twisting) felt by the subject. How could this have been effectively blinded?
It wasn't, as far as I could see. Indeed Sykes admitted that - the blinding only lasted up to the moment before the procedure. There are as ever more questions than answers.

I realise that we ought to merge this thread with this one. Moderator - can this be done?
 
I don't care which, but can we stick with one thread? Having the discussion split between two or three is doing in my multitasking circuit. I'd go for the other one, just on the basis it has more posts.

Rolfe.
Except that this one is about the series, and the other one is about acupuncture.
 
It wasn't, as far as I could see. Indeed Sykes admitted that - the blinding only lasted up to the moment before the procedure. There are as ever more questions than answers.
So there's nothing to say that it's not just placebo?

I agree about merging the threads, if it can be done without too much hassle.
 
Except that this one is about the series, and the other one is about acupuncture.
They're both about this programme, at this precise moment, and it's confusing the life out of me. But say the word, and I'll port my posts over here.

Rolfe.
 
They're both about this programme, at this precise moment, and it's confusing the life out of me. But say the word, and I'll port my posts over here.

Rolfe.
Well I vote for this one as we are on to healing next week - I can't wait:D

ETA - time for bed said Zebedee - I'll pick this up tomorrow.
 
Just thought I'd bump this thread now in preparation for tomorrow's programme. It seems we are to be treated to a performance by Benny Hinn. I hope she's as balanced with him as she was with the acupuncturists!

It seems from the Radio Times blurb that she's going to demonstrate that the power of the mind can produce amazing healing effects. Only believe, and you will be healed.

Yeah, right.

And then next week she can explain to my woo colleagues just how that works on animals, again?

Rolfe.
 
Just thought I'd bump this thread now in preparation for tomorrow's programme. It seems we are to be treated to a performance by Benny Hinn. I hope she's as balanced with him as she was with the acupuncturists!

It seems from the Radio Times blurb that she's going to demonstrate that the power of the mind can produce amazing healing effects. Only believe, and you will be healed.

Yeah, right.

And then next week she can explain to my woo colleagues just how that works on animals, again?

Rolfe.
Allow me to use my special powers.

I'm getting a "P" here. Could it be followed by an "L" and an "A"?

And maybe after that a "CEBO"?
 

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