Basque separatists call 'permanent' cease-fire

[Mycroft]

Madrid -- The Basque separatist group ETA declared a "permanent" cease-fire and pledged to step away from decades of violence Wednesday, a major breakthrough that could end Europe's last armed conflict.

The announcement came at a time of military and political weakness for the militant organization, which has fought for independence from Spain for nearly 40 years and claimed hundreds of victims in bombings and sabotage.

It follows a fierce crackdown under the previous Spanish government and a period of rumored negotiation, officially denied, with the current one. ETA also has seen its popular support fade amid public outrage over deadly bombings in Madrid two years ago by Islamic radicals.

Hmm. Military and political weakness after a fierce crackdown along with fading popular support.

Is that a recipe?


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/03/23/MNGSDHSMJQ1.DTL

 

[Furious]

I think the fading popular support is the key part of that formula.

The ETA was more IRA-like than Al-Queda in that they usually focused their targets on judges and politicians and more recently called in the bombs themselves to make sure the places could be evacuated of innocents.

The average Spainard had little to worry about and almost immediately saw through the claim that the Madrid train bombings were done by the ETA. It just wasn't their style as of late.

Still, it's pretty easy to see why any bombing as a terrorist instrument has gone considerably out of favor.

I don't know how the crackdowns are being performed, but I suspect the Spainards were more willing to tolerate government overzealousness in cracking down on militants in general because of the train bombings more than they would have in the past.

 

[zakur]

Is that a recipe?

Maybe, but be sure that you're not substituting apples for oranges.

There are some very significant differences between ETA and other terrorist groups, most notably Al Qaeda. In fact, besides the fact that both groups blow stuff up, they have very little in common.

 

[Morwen]

We'll see. Everyone here wants to believe this is the beginning of the end; but it wouldn't be the first time our hopes have been thwarted. ETA announced an "indefinite truce" back in 98, which lasted 439 days.

Now what they say is thay they will start a "permanent cease-fire". Okay. I'll wait a full generation before I believe that; the problem is very ingrained in Basque society and whole sectors of the Basque young people (and not so young) suffer an acute case of irrational nationalism. Thanks a lot, Sabino Arana and cronies.

I so wish this was true this time, though.

 

[Mycroft]

...the problem is very ingrained in Basque society and whole sectors of the Basque young people (and not so young) suffer an acute case of irrational nationalism.

What do you think could be done to help the situation?

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Now what they say is thay they will start a "permanent cease-fire". Okay. I'll wait a full generation before I believe that; the problem is very ingrained in Basque society and whole sectors of the Basque young people (and not so young) suffer an acute case of irrational nationalism.

Is nationalism rational? Who's to say that group X's desire for an independent nation is less valid than group Y's desire for the same?

Methods I'll condem, but surely everyone wants a government they feel represents them.

 

[Ziggurat]

Who's to say that group X's desire for an independent nation is less valid than group Y's desire for the same?

I think the irrationality is less about the desire for independence than the lengths one is willing to go to while trying to achieve it (especially if such actions are futile).

 

[Morwen]

Is nationalism rational? Who's to say that group X's desire for an independent nation is less valid than group Y's desire for the same?

True. That was sloppy writing on my part. I should have written "violent nationalism". Personally, I consider nationalism, as an ideology, quite irrational. On the whole, and just from personal experience (anecdotal data, don'tcherknow), I also consider it harmful.

Methods I'll condem, but surely everyone wants a government they feel represents them.

They do have that. Check out the Basque Statute of Autonomy some time; it gives the region the highest grade of independence from a central government in the whole of Europe.

That a bunch of hot-head radicals think that's not enough and want things to be as in their own little heads, full of fairy tales and pseudohistory, and that to achieve that objective these hotheads decide to start killing people, does nothing to advance or endear their ideas to me. But maybe I'm just being cranky.

What do you think could be done to help the situation?

Education. Lots of it, and for a lot of time, presenting things as they are and not as whatever faction wishes they were. I don't care if that ends in an independent Basque Country or not, as long as it's done without violence, without bias, and democratically. It'll take a couple of generations, but it's the only way to really get rid of the problem, instead of putting a band-aid on it.

Yeah, I know... Utopical.

 

[gnome]

I think this cease-fire is going to be permanent for a really long time

 

[Skeptic]

Is nationalism rational? Who's to say that group X's desire for an independent nation is less valid than group Y's desire for the same?

It depends. If the group wanting national rights is the jews, it's evil colonialism. if the group wanting national rights is anybody else, it's liberation from opression.

 

[Giz]

It depends. If the group wanting national rights is the jews, it's evil colonialism. if the group wanting national rights is anybody else, it's liberation from opression.

Whats gotta suck is that it must be some of the worst real-estate in the world, the only bit of the ME without oil, death valley with suicide bombers, you'd think people couldn't give it away...

 

[ImaginalDisc]

It depends. If the group wanting national rights is the jews, it's evil colonialism. if the group wanting national rights is anybody else, it's liberation from opression.

 

[Morwen]

Well... That took only 10 posts...

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Well... That took only 10 posts...

Yeah, well....

One of these days, I'll start a thread about tacos, and it'll be magically transformed into a thread about Israel and Palestine.

 

[Art Vandelay]

The ETA has its roots in opposition to the Franco regime, and its nationalism was therefore not initially irrational. At this point, there's little reason to think that the Basque people would be significantly better off as an independent nation, so violence is completely unjustified.