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"Back From Dead"

Rodney

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Aug 28, 2005
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"A mother and her newborn infant both apparently died during childbirth -- but came back to life on Christmas Eve in what the tearful dad declared 'an absolute miracle.'

"'I had everything taken away and given back to me in two hours,' new dad Mike Hermanstorfer , 37, said.

"The Denver truck driver told The Post his wife, Tracey, 33, was in labor when she went into cardiac arrest.

"'Everything seemed perfectly normal when, all of a sudden, I noticed her hands turned blue. She was just gray. She looked dead," he recalled. '

"'They tried to resuscitate her for four to five minutes and she was not coming back. They couldn't get a heartbeat, nothing,' he said.

"Unable to revive Tracey, doctors in Colorado Springs focused on saving the child.

"'They had to give the baby a fighting chance. So they gave my wife a C-section right there and then and pulled out my son,' he said.

"Doctors were so sure Tracey had died, they did not administer anesthesia.

"'I had seen my wife in front of me gone. I was holding my son, lifeless,' Hermanstorfer said.

"But the doctors refused to give up.

"'They did something to [the infant] and boom, he came back to me right in my hands,' the dad said.

"Back in the operating room, doctors continued to work on Tracey.

"'She had no pulse, no heartbeat, was not breathing and was turning gray,' Dr. Stephanie Martin told the Los Angeles Times.

"As for the recovery, she said, 'We can't find anything that explains why this happened.'

"The mom and the son, who was named Coltyn, are now home with the couple's two other boys. 'I feel I have been given a second chance,' Tracey said. 'From now on, nothing will be the same.'"

See http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/back_from_dead_JdHkUlx1SHScvlCMVTHUbI
 
Rodney said:
"A mother and her newborn infant both apparently died during childbirth -- but came back to life on Christmas Eve in what the tearful dad declared 'an absolute miracle.'

"'I had everything taken away and given back to me in two hours,' new dad Mike Hermanstorfer , 37, said.

"The Denver truck driver told The Post his wife, Tracey, 33, was in labor when she went into cardiac arrest.

"'Everything seemed perfectly normal when, all of a sudden, I noticed her hands turned blue. She was just gray. She looked dead," he recalled. '

"'They tried to resuscitate her for four to five minutes and she was not coming back. They couldn't get a heartbeat, nothing,' he said.

"Unable to revive Tracey, doctors in Colorado Springs focused on saving the child.

"'They had to give the baby a fighting chance. So they gave my wife a C-section right there and then and pulled out my son,' he said.

"Doctors were so sure Tracey had died, they did not administer anesthesia.

"'I had seen my wife in front of me gone. I was holding my son, lifeless,' Hermanstorfer said.

"But the doctors refused to give up.

"'They did something to [the infant] and boom, he came back to me right in my hands,' the dad said.

"Back in the operating room, doctors continued to work on Tracey.

"'She had no pulse, no heartbeat, was not breathing and was turning gray,' Dr. Stephanie Martin told the Los Angeles Times.

"As for the recovery, she said, 'We can't find anything that explains why this happened.'

"The mom and the son, who was named Coltyn, are now home with the couple's two other boys. 'I feel I have been given a second chance,' Tracey said. 'From now on, nothing will be the same.'"

See http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/back_from_dead_JdHkUlx1SHScvlCMVTHUbI
Click to expand...

The above bolded comments seem to be at odds. The story, as related, is coming from the husband/father, who may not have the medical training to accurately convey what happened.
 
Just a chistmas godbothering claim.
They come out every year and are supposed to mean something to the faithful
 
Blackwell said:
The above bolded comments seem to be at odds. The story, as related, is coming from the husband/father, who may not have the medical training to accurately convey what happened.
Click to expand...
"'She had no pulse, no heartbeat, was not breathing and was turning gray,' Dr. Stephanie Martin told the Los Angeles Times.

"As for the recovery, she said, 'We can't find anything that explains why this happened."

But, who knows, maybe Dr. Martin doesn't have any medical training either.
 
Rodney said:
"'She had no pulse, no heartbeat, was not breathing and was turning gray,' Dr. Stephanie Martin told the Los Angeles Times.

"As for the recovery, she said, 'We can't find anything that explains why this happened."

But, who knows, maybe Dr. Martin doesn't have any medical training either.
Click to expand...

Yep, I read that bit too. And I'm confident she has medical training. Or maybe you were just being snippy?
Do you agree that the bits I bolded seem to be at odds? They were "so sure" she was dead, but continued working on her?

Rodney said:
"As for the recovery, she said, 'We can't find anything that explains why this happened."
Click to expand...

From the LA Times article,
Both mother and baby appear healthy now with no sign of problems, Martin said, adding that she cannot explain the mother's cardiac arrest or the recovery.
Click to expand...
and
Martin said Tracy Hermanstorfer's pulse returned even before she was wheeled out of the room and into surgery. Martin estimates she had no heartbeat for about four minutes.
Click to expand...
So she has no explanation for either. So what? They were obviously still planning on performing surgery, so I would assume some CPR or other heart support was going on. Without further details, we really don't know what they were doing for her.
Did you have some comment on the incident? Some point in creating this thread?
 
The only bit of that story I'm surprised at is the name they gave the child. Where on earth did they pluck "Colytn" from?
 
Sasha said:
It's not as unusual as you might think. A quick google found these:

Woman revived after three hours of no pulse or heartbeat:

http://www.abc.net.au/am/stories/s96337.htm

Toddler revived after hour underwater:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Toddler+revived+after+hour+underwater.-a06551538

Ain't Science wonderful!
Click to expand...
Yes, it is, but we still don't know why Tracy Hermanstorfer recovered. Again, the attending physician stated: 'We can't find anything that explains why this happened." Add to that the fact that Mrs. Hermanstorfer's baby was in jeopardy, but also recovered, and it's a rather unusual story.
 
Newsflash:

"Secondhand report of an off-hand remark fails to capture all the relevant information. Details at eleven."

I think Blackwell's got it. The impression that they are trying to create (that this recovery was inexplicable) is at odds with the reported details (you don't maintain resuscitation efforts if you are sure that it would be fruitless, and resuscitation does actually lead to recovery some of the time).

Linda
 
Is there a point to this? A woman recovered without obvious explanation. This happens. I can't see why this is in General Skepticism and The Paranormal. Are we supposed to be skeptical that this woman recovered, or is there a claim of something paranormal occurring?
 
Did the baby and mother ask for brains?
Oh, thought they were zombies or something as the post is in the paranormal.
 
Rodney said:
Yes, it is, but we still don't know why Tracy Hermanstorfer recovered. Again, the attending physician stated: 'We can't find anything that explains why this happened." Add to that the fact that Mrs. Hermanstorfer's baby was in jeopardy, but also recovered, and it's a rather unusual story.
Click to expand...

Since you seem to think this is some miraculous happening, let me ask you this: Do you think the woman and the baby would have survived if the attending physicians, nurses, whoevers had just left them on a cot and not done a thing to try to resuscitate them?
 
fls said:
Newsflash:

"Secondhand report of an off-hand remark fails to capture all the relevant information. Details at eleven."

I think Blackwell's got it. The impression that they are trying to create (that this recovery was inexplicable) is at odds with the reported details (you don't maintain resuscitation efforts if you are sure that it would be fruitless, and resuscitation does actually lead to recovery some of the time).

Linda
Click to expand...
Nice try, but:

"Dr. Stephanie Martin, director of maternal fetal medicine at Memorial Hospital, responded to a frantic, emergency "code blue," or patient requiring immediate resuscitation, and said that 30 to 45 seconds after she entered the room, Hermanstorfer's heart stopped beating.

"Unfortunately, in most of these situations, despite the best efforts of the team, Mom is not able to be revived," Martin told "Good Morning America."

Martin said it became clear that Hermanstorfer was not responding to any revival efforts after several minutes, so the team turned its focus to trying to save the baby by performing a Caesarean section without anesthetic. That's when doctors were hit with more bad news.

"When I delivered [the baby], he was limp, completely lifeless," Martin said.

Then something happened that Martin still has trouble explaining.

"As soon as I delivered the baby, the mother's heartbeat came back," Martin said. "Somewhere between four and five minutes she had been without heart rate and had stopped breathing a minute or two prior to her heart stopping."

Doctors quickly wheeled Hermanstorfer into surgery to complete the C-section. Then, as they operated on the mother, other doctors worked to get the baby breathing again and were eventually able to resuscitate him, all right in front of his stunned father.

Martin said delivering the baby could have relieved Hermanstorfer's body of the stress of labor or unblocked previously clogged blood flow to the rest of her body. Aside from such theories, Martin said, she has trouble explaining what others are calling a miracle.

"I don't have a great explanation," Martin said. "From my personal perspective, I'll take help wherever I can get it."

After running a battery of tests on Hermanstorfer, doctors still do not know what caused her cardiac arrest or what brought her back from the brink.

It's rare for a woman to suffer cardiac arrest during pregnancy and rarer still for both mother and baby to survive, Martin said.

See http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/exclusive-christmas-miracle-mom-baby-dead-labor-revived/story?id=9446946
 
Rodney said:
It's rare for a woman to suffer cardiac arrest during pregnancy and rarer still for both mother and baby to survive, Martin said.
Click to expand...

Yes, certainly rare, like the kakapo. But rarity does not mean miracle.
What, precisely, do you mean?
That there was some kind of supernatural intervention?
 
Rodney said:
Nice try, but:

"Dr. Stephanie Martin, director of maternal fetal medicine at Memorial Hospital, responded to a frantic, emergency "code blue," or patient requiring immediate resuscitation, and said that 30 to 45 seconds after she entered the room, Hermanstorfer's heart stopped beating.

"Unfortunately, in most of these situations, despite the best efforts of the team, Mom is not able to be revived," Martin told "Good Morning America."

Martin said it became clear that Hermanstorfer was not responding to any revival efforts after several minutes, so the team turned its focus to trying to save the baby by performing a Caesarean section without anesthetic. That's when doctors were hit with more bad news.

"When I delivered [the baby], he was limp, completely lifeless," Martin said.

Then something happened that Martin still has trouble explaining.

"As soon as I delivered the baby, the mother's heartbeat came back," Martin said. "Somewhere between four and five minutes she had been without heart rate and had stopped breathing a minute or two prior to her heart stopping."

Doctors quickly wheeled Hermanstorfer into surgery to complete the C-section. Then, as they operated on the mother, other doctors worked to get the baby breathing again and were eventually able to resuscitate him, all right in front of his stunned father.

Martin said delivering the baby could have relieved Hermanstorfer's body of the stress of labor or unblocked previously clogged blood flow to the rest of her body. Aside from such theories, Martin said, she has trouble explaining what others are calling a miracle.

"I don't have a great explanation," Martin said. "From my personal perspective, I'll take help wherever I can get it."

After running a battery of tests on Hermanstorfer, doctors still do not know what caused her cardiac arrest or what brought her back from the brink.

It's rare for a woman to suffer cardiac arrest during pregnancy and rarer still for both mother and baby to survive, Martin said.

See http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/exclusive-christmas-miracle-mom-baby-dead-labor-revived/story?id=9446946
Click to expand...

Right. During a resuscitation, you rarely have the opportunity in that particular individual to fully elucidate all the physiologic processes which led to the arrest and which lead to recovery. Martin offered up a couple of plausible options. What does that have to do with general skepticism and the paranormal?

Linda
 
kerikiwi said:
Yes, certainly rare, like the kakapo. But rarity does not mean miracle.
What, precisely, do you mean?
That there was some kind of supernatural intervention?
Click to expand...


Well SOMETHING must have caused the poor woman and her child to die so unexpectedly. Since the doctors aren't sure what that was it must have been supernatural murder. Lucky thing that the doctors kept working.
 
Martin said delivering the baby could have relieved Hermanstorfer's body of the stress of labor or unblocked previously clogged blood flow to the rest of her body. Aside from such theories, Martin said, she has trouble explaining what others are calling a miracle.
Click to expand...


So, if we ignore anything that could possibly explain it then there's just no explanation.
 
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