Asheville, North Carolina?

[Gwyn ap Nudd]

There's a quiet counter-revolution going on in Asheville, North Carolina. Last month, Rev. Joe Hoffman, pastor of the First Congregational United Church of Christ, decided he was not going to perform civil marriages until he can perform them for all couples who come to him to be married. He will still perform the religious rites for any who request them, but he will no longer sign the marriage licenses as an agent of the state.

After pastors and clergy conduct the actual wedding ceremony they then have to legalize the commitment by signing a document so the couple is recognized by the government. And the government is where his problem starts- because it doesn't recognize all couples.

Marriage. A promise between 2 people. For better, for worst- till death do them part. Then- the government steps in. In North and South Carolina marriage is a chapter in a book of laws with dozens of articles and more than 700 sections. The word "love" is never mentioned, but, thousands of other advantages are.

Rev. Joe Hoffman/First Congregational United Church of Christ: "My rights and privileges allowed heterosexual couples to share health insurance and Medicare benefits and retirement benefits and the custody of children in ways that are not allowed in our laws for people who are gay and lesbian".

On Sunday, another Asheville clergyman, The Rev. Mark Ward, pastor of the Unitarian Universalist Church announced that he, too, would suspend performing civil marriages.

“As ministers we are sort of defacto agents of the state in that we have the ability to legalize marriage of couples we deal with,” he said. “I will choose not to perform that function as long as the state’s laws are unjust.”

A small gesture, and ineffective as long as there are only a small number of ministers involved. But maybe if it speads throughout the many pro-gay UCC and UU churches throughout the nation....

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Excellent! I am all for the complete seperation of civil and religious marriages. Neither should be required to recognize the other and they should server different roles.

 

[Nex]

I feel like I should have been the one to post this first. I live in Asheville, after all.

We have a very strong GLBTQ community here, even though we're technically in the Bible Belt. There are a lot of people, clergy and not, who support equal rights in marriage. It's a great place to live, IMO.

Of course, we did just have a "Sanctity of Marriage" rally in downtown on March 6th... I didn't even stop to check it out as I was at work while it went on. But, last I checked they were estimating ~180 people there for the rally, and ~150 protesting it.

Linkie.

 

[Orangutango]

Thanks for pointing out the story, Gwyn. It brought a smile to my face and gives me a little bit of hope that the pro gay marriage camp has even more allies than we know about.

 

[Gwyn ap Nudd]

Excellent! I am all for the complete seperation of civil and religious marriages. Neither should be required to recognize the other and they should server different roles.

I believe that in some countries in Europe a clergyman cannot sign off on a civil marriage contract and that the "church wedding" and the "legal wedding" are two separate ceremonies. The situation doesn't seem to have any real downside.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I believe that in some countries in Europe a clergyman cannot sign off on a civil marriage contract and that the "church wedding" and the "legal wedding" are two separate ceremonies. The situation doesn't seem to have any real downside.

The upside, as I see it, are the church doesn't have to recognize any civil union it doesn't want to, and the gov't can treat all civil unions equally.

 

[Gwyn ap Nudd]

Exactly!

 

[Orangutango]

Works for me, too. Being that my gf and I are both agnostic, we would want our marriage/civil union performed by a justice of the peace and not a priest anyways...

 

[Meadmaker]

We have a very strong GLBTQ community here
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Q?

I just got T figured out. What's Q?

 

[Gwyn ap Nudd]

Gay
Lesbian
Bisexual
Transgendered*
Questioning.**

* Mainly persons with Gender Dysphoria or "Gender Identity Disorder," but includes transsexuals, intergendereds, and certain classes of cross-dressers as well.

** Usually used in reference to pre-teens and young teens who know that they are different from other people, but are not sure why.

 

[Orangutango]

Q?

I just got T figured out. What's Q?

Don't feel bad, Meadmaker... I didn't know what the "Q" stood for, either... and I'm part of the GLBT community!

 

[Genesius]

Works for me, too. Being that my gf and I are both agnostic, we would want our marriage/civil union performed by a justice of the peace and not a priest anyways...

Speaking as a duly-ordained minister of the Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic, on behalf of my fellow men of the cloth, I'd just like to say that we're not all bad.

 

[Orangutango]

Speaking as a duly-ordained minister of the Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic, on behalf of my fellow men of the cloth, I'd just like to say that we're not all bad.

Cool beans! Are you available this Friday? Do you have a reception hall? Oh, dear... I don't even have a wedding dress! And the invitations! I need to send out the invitations!! I hope that Uncle Maury can make it on such short notice... he's recovering from a bad case of food poisoning, you know. So much to do!! <scurries off to go accost some poor, hapless caterer>

 

[Genesius]

Cool beans! Are you available this Friday? Do you have a reception hall? Oh, dear... I don't even have a wedding dress! And the invitations! I need to send out the invitations!! I hope that Uncle Maury can make it on such short notice... he's recovering from a bad case of food poisoning, you know. So much to do!! <scurries off to go accost some poor, hapless caterer>

Well, I work until 4:00, and it's an hour drive home, so if you think we can fit the rehearsal & wedding in sometime after 5:00 then yeah, I'm game. No reception hall, but we've got a covered deck in the back yard that can fit a few picnic tables.

If you want me to come up there, a small honorarium to cover travel expenses would be much appreciated. What's a stretch limo from PA to CT cost, anyway. . ?

 

[Meadmaker]

Gay
Lesbian
Bisexual
Transgendered*
Questioning.**

* Mainly persons with Gender Dysphoria or "Gender Identity Disorder," but includes transsexuals, intergendereds, and certain classes of cross-dressers as well.

** Usually used in reference to pre-teens and young teens who know that they are different from other people, but are not sure why.

The other classes of cross dressers must feel terribly left out.

 

[Gwyn ap Nudd]

Not every cross-dresser does so for sexual or gender-identity reasons. Often it is done for practical reasons. One example would be a farm woman working in the field in jeans and a flannel shirt rather than in a gingham dress. Just wearing clothes that someone else has deemed inappropriate does not automatically make you transgendered.

 

[Gwyn ap Nudd]

Don't feel bad, Meadmaker... I didn't know what the "Q" stood for, either... and I'm part of the GLBT community!

The Q is usually left out in political discussions in order not to feed into the homophobic myth that all gays are predatory pedophiles persuing proselytes.

 

[Orangutango]

The Q is usually left out in political discussions in order not to feed into the homophobic myth that all gays are predatory pedophiles persuing proselytes.

Thanks for the info, Gwyn.

Just for fun, though... I quized my girlfriend as to what the "Q" stood for, and she had no clue, either.

We both agreed that we liked the addition, though.

 

[Meadmaker]

Over in the politics forum, there was a thread about an organization that started out as the GLA, Gay and Lesbian Alliance, and ended up as the GLBTIA. I was "interested" I think.

At any rate, Gwyn, thanks for the info.