Aromatherapy vs. Homeopathy - the showdown

[athon]

I thought I'd seen it all. But this...this took the cake!

I was waiting for my lady to finish her transactions at the counter at a 'Boots' retail outlet (a UK pharmacy). To amuse myself, I was looking through the CAM stuff, hoping somebody would ask me if I needed any help (always fun to inquire about the recommended dose one needs to take for homeopathic remedies, and what constitutes an overdose). Anyway, I was reading the back of a box of aromatherapy oils, when I came across the warning 'check with your physician if used in conjunction with medications, or homeopathy'.

WTF? Can somebody shed some light on this for me? How can somebody reason that aromatherapy and homeopathy can interfere with each other?

Athon

 

[Benguin]

If you take a homeopathic remedy in conjunction with an aromatherapy one neither will work.

Maybe they cancel each other out, no, wait ...

 

[Rolfe]

Well, strongly-scented products are among the things that have been suggested by homoeopaths as the reason for a failure of a homoeopathic remedy. In common with coffee, tea, alcohol, coca-cola, airport scanners, sunlight, the approach of Mars.... One of the storage recommendations for homoeopathic remedies seems to be to keep away from scented toiletries.

The real hoot is the "check with your physician" part. To paraphrase a physician of my acquaintance, "how the hell am I supposed to know?"

Rolfe.

 

[athon]

Well, strongly-scented products are among the things that have been suggested by homoeopaths as the reason for a failure of a homoeopathic remedy. In common with coffee, tea, alcohol, coca-cola, airport scanners, sunlight, the approach of Mars.... One of the storage recommendations for homoeopathic remedies seems to be to keep away from scented toiletries.

The real hoot is the "check with your physician" part. To paraphrase a physician of my acquaintance, "how the hell am I supposed to know?"

Rolfe.

Absurdly, this was actually the sort of answer I wanted. I figured there must be some sort of mind-numbing rationalization behind such a warning.

Thanks Rolfe. It reminds me of a fantasy novel sometimes -- pure speculation can provide us with so much useless information.

Athon

 

[Sarah-I]

Rolfe,

Where did your friend train then? The Mickey Mouse School of Medicine me thinks!!!

Perhaps this was the same Mickey Mouse School of Veterinary Science that you and BSM trained at hey?!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, all I can say that is if she does not know, then she damn well should make it her business to know and find out. I am really surprised that she has any patients at all if she treats them all like that!!

 

[Zombified]

Any comment on homeopathy's compatibility with aromatherapy, Sarah? Do strong smells destroy remedies? Anything else? From what tests did you determine whether they do or don't?

Where did your friend train then? The Mickey Mouse School of Medicine me thinks!!!

Uh, a crack like this from a homeopath...?

Well, all I can say that is if she does not know, then she damn well should make it her business to know and find out.

Does this mean you can finally explain how to distinguish a high-dilution remedy from plain water?

 

[geni]

Rolfe,

Where did your friend train then? The Mickey Mouse School of Medicine me thinks!!!

Where did you train?

Perhaps this was the same Mickey Mouse School of Veterinary Science that you and BSM trained at hey?!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The use of that many exlacmation marks can't be good

Well, all I can say that is if she does not know, then she damn well should make it her business to know and find out. I am really surprised that she has any patients at all if she treats them all like that!!

How should she find out? Homeopaths can't agree on the subject.

 

[Pragmatist]

The answer is obvious - homeopathy stinks! It messes up all the nice smells of the aromatherapy!

 

[Chris Haynes]

...The real hoot is the "check with your physician" part. To paraphrase a physician of my acquaintance, "how the hell am I supposed to know?"

...

My doctor would respond with "Don't waste your money on such idiocy!"

He is an equal opportunity miser. He also called the $60 antibiotics prescribed for a raging ear infection by an emergency department doc on a Thanksgiving as a "walletectomy", and railed against the use of a new eye imaging machine being pushed by my optometrist --- saying that medical care in this country would be more affordable if some practicioners would stop buying and pushing new expensive equipment, meds and tests.

 

[Benguin]

Absurdly, this was actually the sort of answer I wanted. I figured there must be some sort of mind-numbing rationalization behind such a warning.

Thanks Rolfe. It reminds me of a fantasy novel sometimes -- pure speculation can provide us with so much useless information.

Athon

I think Homeoquacks rely on getting mileage out of the more guarded and PC responses many medics will give. To give an example, a surgeon I visited with an (incurable but tolerable) TMJ issue said " ... if you feel chiropractic treatment helps you cope with this condition then by all means continue take advantage of it, particularly if you feel you can avoid the use of painkillers that way. "

Now I understood what he meant by that, but I think many would misinterpret that as a ringing endorsement of chiro or whatever. I suspect the 'consult your doctor' bit, along with the stuff I mentioned in other threads about about 'drink plenty of water, avoid alcohol and strenuous exercise' is more to do with pantomime medicine than anything else.

Maybe a survey on how GPs respond to patient info requests about quack remedies would be interesting reading for us and the woos?

 

[Rolfe]

How should she find out? Homeopaths can't agree on the subject.

Exactly.

Altmeddlers seem to like to tell their victims to ask their doctors about possible interactions between the woo-"medicine" and any genuine medicine the patient might be taking. Of course, the doctors have no way at all of finding this out.

Interactions between properly tested and licensed medicines are well documented and it's easy for a doctor to look up the reference books and find out any contraindications. However, there are no reference books about woo-preparations, and nowhere to find this information.

Personally, I think these recommendations to "ask your doctor" are intended to give the victims a false impression that woo-preparations are studied in the same way as real medicine, and that their actions and interactions are actually understood. Also, to imply that they do in fact have appreciable effects that a doctor would recognise.

So, Sarah, if it's so easy, you tell us. What are the interactions between homoeopathy and aromatherapy, and where might an overworked GP look to find this information?

(Just by the way, BSM only qualified from Fen Poly - you know, that same Mickey Mouse school where your hero Chris Day qualified, much to its discredit. I, on the other hand, qualified from a much more ancient and venerable institution. )

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

Since Sarah is here again, perhaps there are some old threads to be bumped? Or would it be more constructive to repost the unanswered questions?

Rolfe.

 

[Psiload]

Just for sh!ts and giggles, I decided to go down to the doctor's lounge and ask some docs the question...

"What would you advise a patient who voiced concerns about possible interactions between aromatherapy oils and medications that you had prescribed?"

It's free Thanksgiving feast day in the cafeteria, so I had a big group. The responses:

- Five just rolled their eyes, and tucked back into the pumpkin pie.

- One asked, "Aroma who?"

- One said, "Aromatherapy? Is that like the stinky candles my wife lights whenever she takes a bath?"

And my favorite...

-One answered, "Depends... if they asked during a regular consultation, I'd tell them they have nothing to worry about, but if they called me on my emergency line at two in the morning, I'd tell them," GOOD GOD! BE CAREFUL! The smell of eucalyptus renders the birth control pill totally useless!"

For a total of eight doctors... Mickey Mouse Medical College is really churning them out.

 

[athon]

Rolfe,

Where did your friend train then? The Mickey Mouse School of Medicine me thinks!!!

Perhaps this was the same Mickey Mouse School of Veterinary Science that you and BSM trained at hey?!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, all I can say that is if she does not know, then she damn well should make it her business to know and find out. I am really surprised that she has any patients at all if she treats them all like that!!

Sarah, I notice you went straight for an attack here, rather than choosing to suggest a reason for why homeopathy and aromatherapy might influence each other's reactions.

While I suggest the proposals concerning the effects of each are akin to pure speculation, I'm ironically open to discussing further speculation on the whole topic (it's the fiction writer part of me, I guess).

Then again, if you have some evidence, that would be better yet.

But, maybe it's simply easier to go for an ad-hom attack than to actually discuss this as if you know something we don't. Shame you took the easier path.

Athon

 

[Sarah-I]

This stuff about telling your doctor and asking about drug interactions is actually more for HERBAL MEDICINE. Herbal medicines are given in material doses and so there can definitely be interactions between herbal remedies and conventional medication that a patient is taking. It is for the benefit of those patients.

However, there is no drug reaction at all to be concerned about when taking conventional medication, so no need to tell your GP at all.

I never worry about coffee, toothpaste and the like counteracting the effects of remedies. IF YOU GIVE A PATIENT THE RIGHT REMEDY IT WILL WORK WHATEVER.

I don't think aromatherapy oils will either. I think there is more chance the antibiotics and steroids will stop a remedy working rather than aromatherapy.

 

[Zombified]

However, there is no drug reaction at all to be concerned about when taking conventional medication, so no need to tell your GP at all.

I never worry about coffee, toothpaste and the like counteracting the effects of remedies. IF YOU GIVE A PATIENT THE RIGHT REMEDY IT WILL WORK WHATEVER.

I don't think aromatherapy oils will either. I think there is more chance the antibiotics and steroids will stop a remedy working rather than aromatherapy.

Well, there seem to be homeopaths with differing opinions. How are we to decide whether you or they are right? This would involve evidence of efficacy...

 

[Psiload]

I never worry about coffee, toothpaste and the like counteracting the effects of remedies. IF YOU GIVE A PATIENT THE RIGHT REMEDY IT WILL WORK WHATEVER.

In under ten minutes, I managed to easily find three homeopathic references which contradict this...

http://www.homeopathicmd.ca/English.html

The mouth should be clear of strong flavours: coffee, tobacco smoke, alcohol. Mint (toothpaste, chewing gum, cough drops, etc) must be avoided during the treatment.

Avoid inhaling strong substances(detergents, perfumes).

http://www.manchesterhomoeopathic.co.uk/remedies.html

Here is a list of possible antidotes, which is good to be avoided during the homeopathic treatment for maximum effect of the action of the remedy:

Strong coffee and drugs with a high content of caffeine.
Camphor (mothballs, balms, some ointments with cooling or heat effects, lipsalves).
Peppermint (in toothpaste, chewing gums), except for the fresh herb used in cooking.
Oil of cloves used in dentistry.
Menthol and eucalyptus (in cough syrups, balms, Vicks inhaler.)
Daily or prolonged exposure to strong-smelling substances, like paints, glue fumes, varnishes.
Recreational drugs like cannabis, ecstasis etc.
High intake of alcohol, daily eating of highly spiced food.
Any substance or drug that affects the hormonal, nervous and immune system may have an antidoting effect to the homeopathic treatment.

http://www.alternativepharmacy.com/NewSite/HTML/read.htm

AVOID coffee, camphor, mint, menthol and eucalyptus products (internal and external, such as gums, lozenges, Tiger Balm, Vick's VapoRub, white flower oil, Noxzema creams, and BenGay), which can antidote the remedies or render them ineffective.

If I looked a little longer, I'm sure I'd have no problem finding dozens more. Did all of these references come from the Mickey Mouse School of Homeopathic Medicine?

 

[athon]

I'd be interested to know what this 'fragrance contraindication' is based on. Anecdotal evidence again? Perhaps whenever homeopathy has failed to produce its anticipated reaction, the patient's history is researched and they've been found to have used something which has a strong fragrance? This wouldn't surprise me.

So what of people for whom it has allegedly worked? Have they substained from perfume, mints or caffeine? I don't see those warnings on the side of homeopathic medicines, and yet aromatherapy medications seem to give the warnings themselves.

Maybe I should ask my physician to clarify...

Athon

 

[Dr Adequate]

I notice that Sarah-I still hasn't said why she thinks that aromatherapy doesn't interact withy homeopathy.

Well, all I can say that is if she does not know, then she damn well should make it her business to know and find out. I am really surprised that she has any patients at all if she treats them all like that!!

Hint: because homeopathic "medicine" is water.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Right. The doc can't sort out woo contradictions if they try, but they are uneducated if they don't know more than what the woos themselves don't know?

So we have the wannabe laughing at a doctor. A doctor with enough common sense to know useless crap when he/she sees it. A doctor who knows it's just plain silly to even try to find out what homeopaths think that mixing homeopathy with actual medicine will do. A doctor who knows that anybody taking anything will drink water with it. A doctor who know that there is no problem at all with drinking water while under treatment.

I do worry about diabetics taking homeosugar pills though.

Sarah logic is locked in fantasy world. Helloooo, reality is out heeeeere. I know, you won't make any money on reality. So yes, keep being a con. I really don't know how you can't have a conscience. I don't understand people without ethics. I really don't understand your deluded sense of superiority. Your nonsense makes you look totally ignorant, but you laugh at the educated. Do you not see the irony here?

It'd be like me, drinking pee in order to cure my gangrenous limb laughing at people who take antibiotics to heal a bacterially infected body part. I would be a complete raving lunatic. And yes, there are people out there that drink their pee in order to cure themselves of something. Do you think that is as good or better than homeopathy? Why not? It's just as crazy. It's based on the same kind of false notions. It can have just as strong a placebo effect. And it's free, a free renewable resource of healing water with diluted Urea. You can even shake it around and dilute it some more if you're into that AND homeopathy.

Meh. Why do I bother. It's like talking to brick wall. It has no brain to process logic with.