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Are Any Conspiracies True?

Thunder

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Folks in the 9-11 Denial Movemant like to tell themselves, fence sitters, and the nieve public that those of us who accept most or all of the official story blindly love George Bush, the Neo-Con agenda, and are maybe even card carrying members of the NWO.

But one thing they argue that really troubles me is that we don't believe in any conspiracies and think everything is as its told.

So can we list some actual political events that we acknowledge are true "conspiracies"? I know there must be a few.

Lets show the Toothers that we are not blind sheep, accepting what ever the powers that be tell us.
 
Any corruption scandals are somekind of conspiracies, and God know how many there are of these.
 
Do you mean like Watergate? It was a conspiracy, but I only know about it through the mainstream media.

The problem I see with the CT assertion that we don't believe in any conspiracies is that when they say that, they mean things like Chemtrails and the JFK thing or the Moon landing hoax. All of which are IMO utter rubbish.
 
According to the dictionary- there's a distinction between a "conspiracy theory" and a theory which contains a conspiracy. A conspiracy theory- by it's very design- is irrational. It's ignoring evidence, inventing stories, and it denies a truly logical critical thought process.

So the question- do conspiracies exist? Absolutely. But we know about them the same way we know about everything else in the world- by looking at the evidence, following logic, and drawing a rational conclusion- not by looking at the evidence, denying it, and then taking a predetermined conclusion which defies reality.

If you look at what they refer to as "conspiracies"- Watergate, et al- there are no similarities between those "kind of conspiracies" and what they want us to swallow- and it's not just hindsight; it's the difference between investigative work, and a paranoid and delusional denial of hand-picked facts.
 
parky76 said:
But one thing they argue that really troubles me is that we don't believe in any conspiracies and think everything is as its told.
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Governments lie and conspire frequently. Just look at Bush and Iraq.

The CIA's history is filled with conspiracies.

However, REAL conspiracies tend to make sense. They tend to have a logical purpose. The conspiracy doesn't involve doing complicated and risky things for no bloody reason.
 
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Yes. Many conspiracy theoriesa are indeed crap. But some are indeed true. It is a fact that the CIA helped install the Shah of Iran. It is a fact that the FBI infultrated left wing groups in the USA. My point is not to lend credence to all conspiracy theories but to say to people "yes, some conspiracies are true, but others are truly FALSE". The more objective and open minded we are the more weight our ideas hold.
 
Of course conspiracies exist.

Heck, I've been in several myself. I bet you all have...

This one year, we all conspired to give my sister a surprise birthday party...

-Gumboot
 
I was watching flipping channels and a comentator on Headline News was implying that the USG made a deal with the Mexican Gvn't to trade a group of drug dealers for Dwayne "Dog" Chapman. "Dog" is a bounty hunter, who has a show on A&E, usually he works in Hawaii, but when presented with the opportunity to capture a serial rapist he went to Mexico and caught him. Despite involving local authorities in the arrest, which was successful with no injuries, "Dog" his son and brother were arrested by the Federales. Let out on bail, he was allowed to return to the US. Three years later the US Marshalls arrested the three men again to extradite them to Mexico. I'm no expert on the law and certainly not Mexican law, but given the circumstances IMO something could be worked out. However, this comentator (seems to be a real blowhard) thinks that the Chapmans are victims of a conspiracy. IMO it's unlikely.

I do think the Chapmans should go back and see if something could be worked out that will save face for both countries and all parties involved (except the rapist). Hopefully this won't mean jail time in Mexico for the Chapmans. Since Chapman is a devote Christian (he does get preachy on his show) he might want to put his faith in God that things will turn out OK or see it as a test.
 
parky76 said:
But one thing they argue that really troubles me is that we don't believe in any conspiracies and think everything is as its told.

So can we list some actual political events that we acknowledge are true "conspiracies"? I know there must be a few.

Lets show the Toothers that we are not blind sheep, accepting what ever the powers that be tell us.
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This question comes up once in a while. A few weeks ago, I gave my response here, in the middle of this regrettably lengthy post.

We don't believe the Troothers simply because they haven't asked us to believe anything. They want us to disbelieve something else. The fact that I don't oblige them has nothing to do with what else I believe, and everything to do with the fact that their arguments are nonsense.

I also don't really care whether they think I'm a "sheeple" or not. It's just another unfounded opinion of theirs, and one that has absolutely no bearing on reality...

Honestly, what do I care what Troothers think? Is it going to hurt? Cost me a job? Anger my wife? Or just be totally irrelevant, just like the rest of their drivel? Take a guess.
 
Aphelion said:
Yet you believe the government about 911. Bizarre.
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Not really. I am much more inclined to believe the Gov't is willing to lie about WMDs in Iraq than 9/11. Because Iraq was largely possible because of 9/11. If the ultimate plan was Iraq, I would guess they would have at least planted some WMD's, or made sure at least a few of the hi-jackers on 9/11 were Iraqi.
 
Aphelion said:
Yet you believe the government about 911. Bizarre.
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CTers have to be complete idiots to believe the standard 9/11 truth movement lies.

There is no need to use any government junk to figure out most of 9/11. But you have to use your brain.

I know of zero facts to support any 9/11 truth movement junk yet.

So your point is bad. Not good. Zero credibility. You must of missed many independent papers on 9/11 and tons of experts who actually know math, physics, flying, etc., who can explain many points of 9/11.
 
TOHMS said:
Not really. I am much more inclined to believe the Gov't is willing to lie about WMDs in Iraq than 9/11. Because Iraq was largely possible because of 9/11. If the ultimate plan was Iraq, I would guess they would have at least planted some WMD's, or made sure at least a few of the hi-jackers on 9/11 were Iraqi.
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Or show a direct link between Al Qaeda and Hussein.
 
The 6 hot dog to 8 bun conspiracy.

Its deep man.

Don't dig too deep.
 
Aphelion said:
Yet you believe the government about 911. Bizarre.
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Personally, I don't give a crap, about what "the government" says. I go with the science. If what the government says happens to go with the science- then go government!

Pretty rare that the government goes with the science... Of course, in this case the alternative is wacky silly crap. The government almost never goes with wacky silly crap.
 
This has got to be one of the most frequently asked questions on boards like this.

Nobody argues that powerful people aren't doing things in secret. Back-room deals get made in congress every day. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours later. Vote for my bill, I'll support your appointee in the hearings. Whatever.

There is a distinct difference between things simply happening in secret among several people, or secret government operations like secret weapons programs, and the conspiracy theorist view that ALL of the world is run by a secret cabal who possesses magical abilities.

The ability to get, say, 500,000 people from different segments of society (goverment, law enforcement, media) to conspire with perfect efficiency and zero defectors is magic. It is something not any more possible than telepathy or time travel.

That's the key difference, the difference between, "there's something going on here" and "all of the world is a puppet show run by dark, impossibly powerful and apparently magical humans."
 
parky76 said:
Folks in the 9-11 Denial Movemant like to tell themselves, fence sitters, and the nieve public that those of us who accept most or all of the official story blindly love George Bush, the Neo-Con agenda, and are maybe even card carrying members of the NWO.

But one thing they argue that really troubles me is that we don't believe in any conspiracies and think everything is as its told.

So can we list some actual political events that we acknowledge are true "conspiracies"? I know there must be a few.

Lets show the Toothers that we are not blind sheep, accepting what ever the powers that be tell us.
Click to expand...
My Navy recruiter told me there was fishnet-stockinged maid service on aircraft carriers. There wasn't. He conspired with his superiors to make me join. He worked for the Gubmint. So there.

But seriously it's a helluva good question, Parky.

Of course there's the Indian gambling Abramoff / Ralph Reed conspiracy which was very nicely exposed. Oh, that was sweeeeet!

Problem is when actual conspiracies are exposed, they just sit out there for everyone to look at and paw over and turn inside out (well, here in the USA anyway). As someone smarter than me here indicated - but we had intersecting thoughts just this one time - the twoofers don't mean conspiracies. They mean conspiracy theories. Different ballgame entirely.
 
This is somewhat similar to what I get asked all the time: "What is it about the official story that you like so much?"

In fact, there's nothing about the official story that I particularly "like". But it does explain the facts of that day better than any of the conspiracy theories do. Think about it; how deep do you have to poke into Loose Change before you find the BS? Not very deep at all; there's BS all over the place.

This is why most of the "Truthers" won't say what they believe; witness Aphelion's desperate dodges to avoid answering whether the firemen are in on the plot. They'd rather stick with the "we're just asking questions" nonsense, because they know the minute they actually say what they believe, they're stuck defending a much shakier theory.

There are lots of conspiracies that actually exist, and sometimes conspiracy theorists who appear wacko actually discover them. I think Nico Haupt, who is certainly a CT, is 100% on the money when he says that cults are conspiring to take over the 9-11 "Truth" Movement.
 
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