Apatheists unite! (if you can be bothered)

[Cactus]

It is a very hard thing to explain to people; Christians, Muslims, Atheists even Agnostics all ask me in wonder:

"How can you not care about the afterlife and origin of man? It's only the most important question of life itself!!!1<shift + one>!"

It's not in a threatening way, more a curious way, but it still bugs me.

I see religion as thus:

1. What I believe in has no effect on the truth.
2. I live according to my own sense of what is right or wrong, what does it matter if a god has the same views?
3. Even if a god does exist, what emphasis is there for me to worship it?

I get accused of being 'lazy', but then upon asking my accuser "Why do you think you are right?" I never get a surefire answer for their belief, even with atheists. If you can't KNOW something, then it tends not to be of much use. That said I don't think people aren't entitled to their beliefs, but it is kind of trying to be lumped together with/mistaken for atheism all the time.

Science is often equated with atheism, with the axiom of "If it can't be proved true then it is assumed false" applied to and I can appreciate that line of thought, but still, I do wonder why the existence, or lack of, a god should affect you as a person.

I like hearing counter arguments to my line of thinking (with the exception of those thinking I'm Objectivist) and I'd like to hear your reasons for believing whatever you believe, I promise not to turn this thread into the usual "I'm right you're wrong" affair

And yes I know the potential irony of promoting apatheism on the religion and philosophy board.

 

[Scott Haley]

it is in charge of a
two legged animal called
man who is genuinely
puzzled as to whether
his grandfather was a god
or a monkey
i should think said mars
that what he is himself
would make more difference
than what his grandfather was
not to this animal i replied
he is the great alibi ike of
the cosmos when he raises hell
just because he feels like
raising hell
he wants somebody to blame it on

--Don Marquis

 

[jakesteele]

It is a very hard thing to explain to people; Christians, Muslims, Atheists even Agnostics all ask me in wonder:

"How can you not care about the afterlife and origin of man? It's only the most important question of life itself!!!1<shift + one>!"

It's not in a threatening way, more a curious way, but it still bugs me.

I see religion as thus:

1. What I believe in has no effect on the truth.
2. I live according to my own sense of what is right or wrong, what does it matter if a god has the same views?
3. Even if a god does exist, what emphasis is there for me to worship it?

I get accused of being 'lazy', but then upon asking my accuser "Why do you think you are right?" I never get a surefire answer for their belief, even with atheists. If you can't KNOW something, then it tends not to be of much use. That said I don't think people aren't entitled to their beliefs, but it is kind of trying to be lumped together with/mistaken for atheism all the time.

Science is often equated with atheism, with the axiom of "If it can't be proved true then it is assumed false" applied to and I can appreciate that line of thought, but still, I do wonder why the existence, or lack of, a god should affect you as a person.

I like hearing counter arguments to my line of thinking (with the exception of those thinking I'm Objectivist) and I'd like to hear your reasons for believing whatever you believe, I promise not to turn this thread into the usual "I'm right you're wrong" affair

And yes I know the potential irony of promoting apatheism on the religion and philosophy board.

No matter what philosophical or metaphysical reality tunnel, world view or cognitive closure system I buy into or argue against during the day, at the end of the day the only thing I know for sure is that I don't know anything for sure.

 

[Atheist Girl]

I've been asked by the religious in the past what I think happens to us after we die, and my answer is always "I don't think about it". They always seem appalled... I'll never understand it, because I honestly don't spend some large (or small) portion of my life contemplating what's going to happen after I die, or similarly related, what happened before I was ever born (or before we ever existed).

I understand to a point that people want to get to the scientific root of the creation of everything, and so on that I will give a nod and say "good, you do that then," but as for me? I really just don't care. And the same goes for trying to figure out anything having to do with an "afterlife" because it really it's one of those things I'm not going to know until it happens, so I figure I'll worry about it when I'm dead.

And I mean, I'm not a lazy in what I believe or disbelieve, I have very strong "beliefs" in what is good, sound, logical truth and what is utter and complete make-believe, and I enjoy discussing that with others... however, I just don't care about what happens after we die because there's nothing I can do about it. Death is coming. It's coming for you (uh-oh) and me (oh noes) and when we get there, I guess we'll have all the answers.

But really, why would I waste a big chunk of my life trying to figure it out when I'm going to get the answer some day?! I know there's probably no god, therefor contemplating the afterlife is really just a matter of "will I have some kind of existence or not" rather than it being a matter of torture or pleasure or heaven or hell or what have you. It is a matter of existence, or non-existence... that's it.

And which ever it is? Is going to happen whether I know what it is or not

So I'm content to just wait and see.

 

[Cavemonster]

It is a very hard thing to explain to people; Christians, Muslims, Atheists even Agnostics all ask me in wonder:

"How can you not care about the afterlife and origin of man? It's only the most important question of life itself!!!1<shift + one>!"

It's not in a threatening way, more a curious way, but it still bugs me.

I see religion as thus:

1. What I believe in has no effect on the truth.

But whether or not what you believe is true has an effect on your future. If Christians were correct in their mythology, for instance, it would be a matter of eternal torment or eternal reward to choose the right belief. By choosing not to care, you are either assuming that claim to be most likely untrue or you don't care whether you burn for eternity. Since I've never met a human who was completely lacking in self interest, I think I'd be safe in assuming that you consider such claims of the afterlife unlikely enough to be dismissed. You may not like the labels of atheist, agnostic etc, but you most likely really do have an opinion.

If you can't KNOW something, then it tends not to be of much use.

I suggest you read up on the scientific method. You can't know anything with absolute certainty, and yet our models and our attempts are of an extreme amount of use. Newtons model of physics could be considered "wrong" from a certain perspective, and yet so much was done with it!

I need to repeat this. Our provisional models of the world, that we never can "know" with certainty, are of incredible use! Penicillin, spaceflight, video games, all created with models that are held provisionally. Every advancement ever falls into the same category.

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

My sister is an apatheist. She really, truly, totally doesn't care about whether there is a God or not, afterlife or not, etc.

Just doesn't care. Doesn't make a difference to her. Her view is that if it exists, great, but if it doesn't, eh, whatever.

If you knew her personality, you'd understand.

She is exactly the type to face the biggest question of the universe with a cold shrug and turn her mind to this week's episode of Glee.

 

[godofpie]

It is a very hard thing to explain to people; Christians, Muslims, Atheists even Agnostics all ask me in wonder:

"How can you not care about the afterlife and origin of man? It's only the most important question of life itself!!!1<shift + one>!"

It's not in a threatening way, more a curious way, but it still bugs me.

I see religion as thus:

1. What I believe in has no effect on the truth.
2. I live according to my own sense of what is right or wrong, what does it matter if a god has the same views?
3. Even if a god does exist, what emphasis is there for me to worship it?

I get accused of being 'lazy', but then upon asking my accuser "Why do you think you are right?" I never get a surefire answer for their belief, even with atheists. If you can't KNOW something, then it tends not to be of much use. That said I don't think people aren't entitled to their beliefs, but it is kind of trying to be lumped together with/mistaken for atheism all the time.

Science is often equated with atheism, with the axiom of "If it can't be proved true then it is assumed false" applied to and I can appreciate that line of thought, but still, I do wonder why the existence, or lack of, a god should affect you as a person.

I like hearing counter arguments to my line of thinking (with the exception of those thinking I'm Objectivist) and I'd like to hear your reasons for believing whatever you believe, I promise not to turn this thread into the usual "I'm right you're wrong" affair

And yes I know the potential irony of promoting apatheism on the religion and philosophy board.

tl;dr

 

[godofpie]

I am an ordained minister and have a degree in Nescience from here.

 

[Soapy Sam]

It is a very hard thing to explain to people; Christians, Muslims, Atheists even Agnostics all ask me in wonder:

"How can you not care about the afterlife and origin of man? It's only the most important question of life itself!!!1<shift + one>!"

It's not in a threatening way, more a curious way, but it still bugs me.

I see religion as thus:

1. What I believe in has no effect on the truth.
2. I live according to my own sense of what is right or wrong, what does it matter if a god has the same views?
3. Even if a god does exist, what emphasis is there for me to worship it?

I get accused of being 'lazy', but then upon asking my accuser "Why do you think you are right?" I never get a surefire answer for their belief, even with atheists. If you can't KNOW something, then it tends not to be of much use. That said I don't think people aren't entitled to their beliefs, but it is kind of trying to be lumped together with/mistaken for atheism all the time.

Science is often equated with atheism, with the axiom of "If it can't be proved true then it is assumed false" applied to and I can appreciate that line of thought, but still, I do wonder why the existence, or lack of, a god should affect you as a person.

I like hearing counter arguments to my line of thinking (with the exception of those thinking I'm Objectivist) and I'd like to hear your reasons for believing whatever you believe, I promise not to turn this thread into the usual "I'm right you're wrong" affair

And yes I know the potential irony of promoting apatheism on the religion and philosophy board.

Pah! Another sinner in denial.

 

[Apathia]

That would be my mother, who even as she was dying of terminal cancer, was so irreligious that she wasn't even an atheist.

 

[Cactus]

But whether or not what you believe is true has an effect on your future. If Christians were correct in their mythology, for instance, it would be a matter of eternal torment or eternal reward to choose the right belief. By choosing not to care, you are either assuming that claim to be most likely untrue or you don't care whether you burn for eternity. Since I've never met a human who was completely lacking in self interest, I think I'd be safe in assuming that you consider such claims of the afterlife unlikely enough to be dismissed. You may not like the labels of atheist, agnostic etc, but you most likely really do have an opinion.

I have an opinion, in the sense of not caring about it. It's about half not believing it, half honestly not caring. Maybe you can only see it as "lack of self interest", I'm not sure, but that's how it is.

I suggest you read up on the scientific method. You can't know anything with absolute certainty, and yet our models and our attempts are of an extreme amount of use. Newtons model of physics could be considered "wrong" from a certain perspective, and yet so much was done with it!

I need to repeat this. Our provisional models of the world, that we never can "know" with certainty, are of incredible use! Penicillin, spaceflight, video games, all created with models that are held provisionally. Every advancement ever falls into the same category.

Okay, maybe I should have defined it more strictly as with regards to religion, I forget how this forum works half the time. It's weird in a way, I know I articulate things in a crappy way, but I'm fairly certain that when I'm debating on any other website/in real life people tend to grasp my intended meaning. I think the constant drone of having to shoot down fundamentalist arguments has somewhat soured you lot to jumping on each an every mistake, right down to a typo. Not complaining, just curious.

But I do actually know a fair amount about scientific method, I just didn't see it as something people would jump to.

 

[Cavemonster]

I have an opinion, in the sense of not caring about it. It's about half not believing it, half honestly not caring. Maybe you can only see it as "lack of self interest", I'm not sure, but that's how it is.

Let me clarify. You either-
A) Believe the likelyhood of heaven/hell is so low, it's not worth worrying.
or
B) Don't care whether you are eternally punished/rewarded.

I suspect that whether or not you process this with the clarity to actually make the statement, that you subscribe to view A, even if only semi consciously. If I'm wrong, and you fall into category B, then it's virtually indistinguishable from not looking when you cross the street because you don't care if a car hits you. I think that can very clearly be described as a lack of self interest.

Okay, maybe I should have defined it more strictly as with regards to religion, I forget how this forum works half the time. It's weird in a way, I know I articulate things in a crappy way, but I'm fairly certain that when I'm debating on any other website/in real life people tend to grasp my intended meaning. I think the constant drone of having to shoot down fundamentalist arguments has somewhat soured you lot to jumping on each an every mistake, right down to a typo. Not complaining, just curious.

But I do actually know a fair amount about scientific method, I just didn't see it as something people would jump to.

Okay, if

If you can't KNOW something, then it tends not to be of much use.

was not what you meant to say, then what did you mean to say? You just spent a meaty paragraph criticizing me for misinterpreting your writing without clarifying. I assume people write what they mean to write, and I was responding to what you wrote.

 

[Cactus]

Let me clarify. You either-
A) Believe the likelyhood of heaven/hell is so low, it's not worth worrying.
or
B) Don't care whether you are eternally punished/rewarded.

I suspect that whether or not you process this with the clarity to actually make the statement, that you subscribe to view A, even if only semi consciously. If I'm wrong, and you fall into category B, then it's virtually indistinguishable from not looking when you cross the street because you don't care if a car hits you. I think that can very clearly be described as a lack of self interest.

Well, if we have to go by the majority of the belief, then it's category A.

But there is a part of 'lack of self interest' there as well, which involves a fairly lengthy paragraph for each religion to explain why. Basically, it revolves around the idea that I believe I have complete free will.

Okay, if ... was not what you meant to say, then what did you mean to say? You just spent a meaty paragraph criticizing me for misinterpreting your writing without clarifying. I assume people write what they mean to write, and I was responding to what you wrote.

Replace, "KNOW something" with "KNOW something about yourself and your beliefs"

That mini-rant wasn't meant to be a criticism, I apologise.

 

[Cavemonster]

Well, if we have to go by the majority of the belief, then it's category A.

But there is a part of 'lack of self interest' there as well, which involves a fairly lengthy paragraph for each religion to explain why. Basically, it revolves around the idea that I believe I have complete free will.

No one can define you better than yourself, but that doesn't sound like apathy to me. If you have a lengthy paragraph for each religion, that seems to suggest you have given it some serious thought, and that serious thought informs your present position.

Replace, "KNOW something" with "KNOW something about yourself and your beliefs"

That mini-rant wasn't meant to be a criticism, I apologise.

No worries, I apologise if I was terse.
But I'm not sure I get what you mean by the revised phrase.

If you can't KNOW something about yourself and your beliefs, then it tends not to be of much use.

 

[tourmaline]

It is a very hard thing to explain to people; Christians, Muslims, Atheists even Agnostics all ask me in wonder:

"How can you not care about the afterlife and origin of man? It's only the most important question of life itself!!!1<shift + one>!"

It's not in a threatening way, more a curious way, but it still bugs me.

I see religion as thus:

1. What I believe in has no effect on the truth.
2. I live according to my own sense of what is right or wrong, what does it matter if a god has the same views?
3. Even if a god does exist, what emphasis is there for me to worship it?

I get accused of being 'lazy', but then upon asking my accuser "Why do you think you are right?" I never get a surefire answer for their belief, even with atheists. If you can't KNOW something, then it tends not to be of much use. That said I don't think people aren't entitled to their beliefs, but it is kind of trying to be lumped together with/mistaken for atheism all the time.

Science is often equated with atheism, with the axiom of "If it can't be proved true then it is assumed false" applied to and I can appreciate that line of thought, but still, I do wonder why the existence, or lack of, a god should affect you as a person.

I like hearing counter arguments to my line of thinking (with the exception of those thinking I'm Objectivist) and I'd like to hear your reasons for believing whatever you believe, I promise not to turn this thread into the usual "I'm right you're wrong" affair

And yes I know the potential irony of promoting apatheism on the religion and philosophy board.

I agree with Cavemonster's FIRST full post.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6201257#post6201257

My family is theistic but not religious. My family never went to church. I went to church from age 11-13, mostly for social reasons but also curiosity. I didn't find it very believable even then. They all sound like fairy-tales. Also, I saw that there wasn't any consistency with religion -- many religions with many interpretations. Also, also, praying seemed like wishing really hard with similar results.

I was an atheist long before I became a scientist. Now when I say that I believe in the theory of evolution, its inaccurate. A more accurate statement would be: I think there is a lot of evidence and sound reasoning behind the theory. I dont really know anything with certainty. I just find somethings more plausible than others.

 

[Cactus]

What I meant is that I've met quite a lot of people who 'inherited' their religious beliefs from their parents, they often aren't too strict about practicing and crumble at the first question of their beliefs.

When you are so unsure as to what you believe, even when you feel comfortable labeling yourself, then you really won't find any happiness or feel satisfied in such a spiritual matters.

It's equivalent to being a closeted homosexual, I was using it as a small argument that I suspect a great many number of people really are unsure of their beliefs. I've personally met self-proclaimed Atheists, Agnostic Atheists, even a Jew who then go on to describe themselves as Apatheistic.

I should also point out a possible source of confusion here, I fully see this belief as a subset of Agnosticism, I just find Apatheism faster to write than Apatheistic Agnosticism, in case anyone is confused.

 

[Damien Evans]

My sister is an apatheist. She really, truly, totally doesn't care about whether there is a God or not, afterlife or not, etc.

Just doesn't care. Doesn't make a difference to her. Her view is that if it exists, great, but if it doesn't, eh, whatever.

If you knew her personality, you'd understand.

She is exactly the type to face the biggest question of the universe with a cold shrug and turn her mind to this week's episode of Glee.

Me too, except for the Glee part.



And if you want to get really technical with labels, I'm an apatheistic agnostic atheist.

 

[arthwollipot]

Apatheism is pretty common in Australia.

 

[Zep]

Apatheism is pretty common in Australia.

I was going to say that. But since you just did, that's fine by me.

 

[Cainkane1]

The first time I heard of this was when my best friend said he was an apatheist. He was on dialysis and he just wasn't interested in the issues. He died a few years later.