Anyone know the citation for this new homeopathy study?

A very typical homeopathy study: No controls, no objective measurements, no blinding. All biases available,

... and even then, they couldn't do better than 70%. That is equivalent to a yacht race where you are the only one who doesn't break the mast, and you still end up on a second place :rolleyes:.

Hans
 
The study looked at the following medical conditions: Childhood eczema, childhood asthma, migraine, menopausal symptoms, ME/CFS, Irritable bowel syndrome, depression, Inflammatory bowel disease, cancer, arthritis.

6 out of the 10 conditions studied have a natural history of improvement over time without any intervention whatsoever.

Considering this, and the fact that patients got consultations lasting 45 minutes - 1 hour (as opposed to the 7.5 minutes from a GP), that the study was uncontrolled and unblinded, used no objective outcome measures and rather loose subjective measures of health rating, I actually think that the 50% rate of "better or much better" health is clear evidence that homeopathy is a dismal failure .

The authors omit an important variable for an observational study over time - the median length of follow up.
Why?
(Perchance they were embarassed to admit how long it took for patients to get this wonderful "improvement"?)

Data are also only available for follow up patients, so there may be a strong selection bias against those who only had the initial appointment and then stopped attending because they did not experience any benefit and/or realised the whole thing was a lot of woo.
Do the authors say how many patients failed to return for followup? No.
 
The paper is scientifically indefensible. An I have no doubt that Dr. Spence and his colleagues know that very well.

However, the object of the exercise wasn't to get a Nobel Prize, it was to achieve headlines that could be used to negate the bad headlines they had over the study (and editorial) in the Lancet in August. In that, I'd say it has been singularly successful.

The sheer dishonesty makes me sick.

Rolfe.
 
The paper is scientifically indefensible. An I have no doubt that Dr. Spence and his colleagues know that very well.

However, the object of the exercise wasn't to get a Nobel Prize, it was to achieve headlines that could be used to negate the bad headlines they had over the study (and editorial) in the Lancet in August. In that, I'd say it has been singularly successful.

The sheer dishonesty makes me sick.

Rolfe.
What makes me sicker is the BBC report about it. Look at the journal title. Look at the authors. Does this look like an objective scientific paper? To be fair, they did get Egger to comment, but they really should have said where the Spence paper was published. What's more, Spence is a consultant paid by the NHS!!!!! What the hell is going on here? Come on guys, let's see some letters to the editor, and possibly some complaints to the BBC.
 
Oh, it's worse than that, Jim. Some of us were cleaning our teeth yesterday morning while going purple in the face listening to Dr. Spence being lionised by someone on the Today team - Sarah Montague, I think. Although they did give Prof. Egger a bit of a crack of the whip, it was mainly a pro piece.

Rolfe.
 
Oh, it's worse than that, Jim. Some of us were cleaning our teeth yesterday morning while going purple in the face listening to Dr. Spence being lionised by someone on the Today team - Sarah Montague, I think. Although they did give Prof. Egger a bit of a crack of the whip, it was mainly a pro piece.

Rolfe.
On reflection there's no point in writing letters to the journal - they will almost certainly not be published. Interesting though to look at letters on other topics. For some reason Lewith and Peters are writing to this comp alt med journal about papers that appeared in The Lancet etc. Prime example of how the sCAM community sticks together. Is this what they mean by integration?
 
http://www.trusthomeopathy.org/case/res_toc.html

This is the web site of the Faculty of Homoeopathy. It's a bit odd, clicking on some links gets you a page for about three seconds, then it redirects to another. This is the page you end up at if you click on "Research in homoeopathy", though I'd like a closer look at the page the link initially opens.

A more biassed, selective and partisan collection of "evidence" I hope never again to see.

Interestingly, although they proudly present "Selected randomised clinical trials of homeopathy " on that page (link gets you five papers, all weak, and one actually reporting a negative outcome!), an article linked separately from their home page
http://www.trusthomeopathy.org/csArticles/articles/000000/000057.htm
rubbishes the Lancet article by declaring
placebo-controlled design was probably not appropriate in the trials of individualised homeopathy
Oops, so it's fine if you think you like the outcome (even if you have misinterpreted what that outcome is!), but not if you don't. They also wax wroth about the omission of the infamous Linde et al. 1997 paper, which is about all they've got to cling to. Of course the paper was discredited by multiple re-analyses of the original data, including two retractions by the original authors, but that's never stopped the homoeopaths waving it in the air like a victory banner.

The more I encounter these people, the more their dishonesty is revealed.

Rolfe.
 
By the way, Asopepius, did you see that Watchdog did a number on "Dr. and Herbs" last night? Specifically about their claims that some sort of expensive Chinese tea could "stop bird flu". The shop assistant who made the claims to the researcher was repeatedly described as a "doctor", but she sure as hell wasn't registered with the GMC, but if they were being ironic that bit didn't get over to me.

The senior executive they had on the show started by saying it was the researcher's own fault for specifically asking about bird flu, but mainly rested his case on repeated declarations that the Chinese had been using this tea for flu for centuries, so why on earth couldn't he make that claim. Unfortunately nobody quoted the Medicines Act at him.

Oh yes, and all the instructions (and possible cautions) on the £10 box of tea where in Chinese.

Rolfe.
 
*snip* Oops, so it's fine if you think you like the outcome (even if you have misinterpreted what that outcome is!), but not if you don't. *snip*

The more I encounter these people, the more their dishonesty is revealed.

Rolfe.
That is just what they do. Our friend Neil ("Bach") recently claimed that since his basic assumption is that homeopathy works, then it is logicaly consistent for him to asume that tests that yield a negative results are faulty :boggled: . I wonder if he would accept that I deemed a positive trial faulty, solely on the premise that homeopathy doesn't work? Or would he cry "bias!" ;)? Well, I suppose we'll have to wait for a positive trial to test that :D.

Hans
 
Dry mountains, stones, cactus trees, deserts, ocean, camels....can think, why people drink so much water as it has no/least use and nutrients? But they may be wrong in common sense.:)
 
Dry mountains, stones, cactus trees, deserts, ocean, camels....can think, why people drink so much water as it has no/least use and nutrients? But they may be wrong in common sense.:)
:nope:

Kumar, I suggest you don't try your hand at sarcasm. You are not very good at it. In fact, posts like that just make you look like a total dummy.

Hans
 
I've read some of the papers presented in http://www.liebertonline.com/toc/acm/11/5
Way out stuff indeed. Of course they spend little time questioning the motives of the editors of the Lancet (who, admittedly must have their hands tied behind their backs if randomized double blind testing is not an appropriate tool to assess homeopathy).

Another thing they disparage is skeptical questioning of homeopathic dilution based on "high school" chemistry, as if high school chemistry, chemistry in its foundations, is not chemistry at all. A mark of good chemical research, indeed good scientific research, is simplicity - the assumptions are easy to grasp, the basis is sound, and the experiments are definitive. That a high school student understands that research would be a good indication of the strength of the science.
 
That is just what they do. Our friend Neil ("Bach") recently claimed that since his basic assumption is that homeopathy works, then it is logicaly consistent for him to asume that tests that yield a negative results are faulty :boggled:
Just in case anyone wants to see this in all its, er, "glory", here's his article, and here's some discussion of it... :oldroll:
 
By the way, Asopepius, did you see that Watchdog did a number on "Dr. and Herbs" last night? Specifically about their claims that some sort of expensive Chinese tea could "stop bird flu". The shop assistant who made the claims to the researcher was repeatedly described as a "doctor", but she sure as hell wasn't registered with the GMC, but if they were being ironic that bit didn't get over to me.

Rolfe.
No sadly I missed that. I do strongly urge all fellow sceptics to complain to broadcasters about unbalanced and disingenuous reporting. I have just sent in another one about the BBC website's reporting of the Spence paper. Of course, they won't agree. I even had one complaint escalated to the BBC governors, with support from a leading authority in the field, but they still fobbed it off. But it's extremely quick and easy to lodge a complaint, and if enough people do it they will eventually take notice. At present of course they take more notice of complaints of blasphemy than they do of irrationality. Very sadly there seem to be far more religious extremists in the world than there are critical thinkers.

I'm particuarly interested in the Chinese herbs story, as I have been trying for 18 months to get the UK regulatory authority (MHRA) to do something about the outrageous claims made in all these shop windows. But the last I heard, they only had 12 enforcement officers for the whole UK!
 
No, Watchdog really did put "Dr. & Herbs" on the spot. It was a good watch. It's just that they could have put the boot in even further if they'd had a bit more information.

Rolfe.
 

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