Anyone ever have gout?

[Number Six]

About eight months ago my big toe on my right foot starting hurting more and more so I went to a doc. They looked at it, asked some questions, etc and said it was gout and gave me some anti-inflammatory drugs. The drugs worked, thankfully, because the gout was prett d*** painful and it was hard to even walk.

Well eight months later and dang if it's not back again on the other foot. It started on a toe on my left foot and that wasn't too bad but then a couple days later my left ankle got it bad (unless I somehow messed up my left ankle by walking funny to avoid putting weight on the toe that hurt).

Put succinctly, this bites. It's Friday now and too late to get a doc appointment for this week so I guess I'll just wait until Monday and if it's still bad I'll make an appointment then. But I don't really need an appointment per se, rather I just need more of the anti-inflammatory drug they gave me before (Indocin, I think). Anyone know of any over the counter drugs that might address this that I could buy now instead of waiting until Monday? I hate to start going to the doctor for something every eight months or something. I'm hoping it'll just go away by itself. But if recurs again and again I'm going to have to see a doc about it eventually.

Any thoughts on gout in general? I modified my diet a bit after the first bout but I suppose I'll alter it even more because I sure as h*** don't want this coming back again and again if I can help it. But it's unclear how much of the cause is diet or how much is genetics or just bad luck or what. I surf the web to get general info but it's hard to get more than that it seems.

 

[chulbert]

Any thoughts on gout in general?

I was diagnosed with gout at the tender age of 26 and it was the most excruciating thing I've ever experienced. The afflicted area is so sensitive that as little as a bed sheet laying on it sends shards of agony up my entire leg. It literally brought me to tears.

My doctor also gave me some anti-inflammatory drugs and, oh my god, they were wonderful. I have a standing prescription for the medication but I haven't needed any refills so far.

If it becomes chronic, your doctor will perform tests to determine if you're an "over-producer" or "under-excreter" of uric acid and act accordingly. Given my age, we're watching it very closely but, thankfully, I haven't yet needed to go on any long-term medication to control my uric acid levels.

Gout is the suck.

 

[Goshawk]

Indocin is just a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory, or NSAID.

Like ibuprofen. Get yourself some Advil for the weekend.

List of other NSAIDs.


My dad had gout, and they're not kidding when they tell you, "Modify your diet." That's going to be the only long-term solution. I presume they gave you a "foods allowed" list? Well, they're not just blowin' smoke.

More than you probably wanted to know about gout.

No, it's not going to go away by itself. Welcome to your new life as a gout sufferer. You're going to need to make some lifestyle changes here, or else resign yourself to the fact that you're going to have gout attacks periodically.

And you can damage yourself permanently if you simply ignore it.

...An initial attack of gout (50% of initial attacks involve the big toe) may last several days and disappear even if untreated. Subsequent attacks may not occur for weeks, months, years, or not at all. In severe cases, repeated attacks occurring over a long period may cause damage to the joints and loss of mobility. The big toe is eventually affected in 90% of cases...

So this is not something to fool around with.

My dad found it easier just to make the changes and eat less meat.

 

[coalesce]

From what I understand, gout can run in the family. It certainly does in mine. My mother and at least two of her brothers suffer from it, as do I. I found that cutting out all shellfish (lobster, oysters, clams, etc.) and black beans helps me to steer clear of gout. These foods, as well as red meat, are high in purines, which can raise uric acid levels in the body, which then accumulates in the body and settles most often in a joint (toe, finger, wrist, etc.). My mother's doctor even told her of a case where it settled in one patient's earlobe. And for anyone who has never experienced it, I can assure it, it's incredibly painful and debilitating.

The first time I had it two years ago, I had copious amounts of lobster two weekends in a row. My right big toe blew up and nothing helped--raising it, lowering it, nothing. I tried explaining to my wife that even the air hurt my toe. When I did see a doctor, all he told me was to let it work its way out of my system and take two Alleve tablets (an OTC pain reliever here in the US) every 12 hours. He said he could prescribe something to me, but it would the equivalent of four Alleve tablets, so we agreed on the OTC Alleve. It cleared up on its own. The second time I had it a year later, I had two mouthfuls of lobster, and sure enough, it flared up again, but not nearly as severe as the first time. The third time, this past summer, the culprit was black beans. Since then, I've been fine and in each of the two cases, the Alleve did the trick, usually overnight.

Here's hoping this helps.

Michael

 

[Number Six]

Can particular foods really have an effect that quickly? I figured drinking beer and eating red meat may have been the culprit for me but I suspected that it was a cumulative effect over time. After my first gout attack I cut back on beer a bit and probably didn't cut back on red meat at all. (BTW, does chicken count as red meat?)

After I got this recent gout attack I looked up the no-no foods to see what else was on the list. It said peas and all kinds of beans. (Geez, I don't like that many vegetables to begin with and now some of the ones I do like are on the bad list?!?...that bites). Anyway, the night before the attack came on I made chili (with kidney beans). I didn't eat too much of it that night and the next morning I felt the first twinge of gout. I ate a ton of it the next day (I hadn't yet looked up the food list again so I didn't realize it was bad.) I wonder if it's as simple as eating that. But it seems weird that drinking beer and eating burgers over months wouldn't bring it on and then suddenly a bunch of kidney beans would.

Anyway, I'll try the Advil approach for now and if it's still bad on Monday I'll make an appointment with the doc. Geez, I have a lunch appointment with someone in 40 minutes and when I eat lunch out I usually get a burger and now I guess I can't. This is cramping my lifestyle already (not to mention the fact that I'm going to have to limp to the lunch place...I don't want to but it's something already set up so I kinda have to).

 

[Number Six]

Can particular foods really have an effect that quickly? I figured drinking beer and eating red meat may have been the culprit for me but I suspected that it was a cumulative effect over time. After my first gout attack I cut back on beer a bit and probably didn't cut back on red meat at all. (BTW, does chicken count as red meat?)

After I got this recent gout attack I looked up the no-no foods to see what else was on the list. It said peas and all kinds of beans. (Geez, I don't like that many vegetables to begin with and now some of the ones I do like are on the bad list?!?...that bites). Anyway, the night before the attack came on I made chili (with kidney beans). I didn't eat too much of it that night and the next morning I felt the first twinge of gout. I ate a ton of it the next day (I hadn't yet looked up the food list again so I didn't realize it was bad.) I wonder if it's as simple as eating that. But it seems weird that drinking beer and eating burgers over months wouldn't bring it on and then suddenly a bunch of kidney beans would.

Anyway, I'll try the Advil approach for now and if it's still bad on Monday I'll make an appointment with the doc. Geez, I have a lunch appointment with someone in 40 minutes and when I eat lunch out I usually get a burger and now I guess I can't. This is cramping my lifestyle already (not to mention the fact that I'm going to have to limp to the lunch place...I don't want to but it's something alre

 

[Checkmite]

I've got gout also - in my ankles, however, rather than my feet. The attacks used to happen every six months or so, but I haven't had one in awhile. I didn't change my diet, either...but I've been relatively more active, which might be making the difference.

 

[uruk]

I'm a suffer too. In my knees and ankes. Had to modify diet also.
Sucks royaly!

 

[coalesce]

Can particular foods really have an effect that quickly? I figured drinking beer and eating red meat may have been the culprit for me but I suspected that it was a cumulative effect over time. After my first gout attack I cut back on beer a bit and probably didn't cut back on red meat at all. (BTW, does chicken count as red meat?)

After I got this recent gout attack I looked up the no-no foods to see what else was on the list. It said peas and all kinds of beans. (Geez, I don't like that many vegetables to begin with and now some of the ones I do like are on the bad list?!?...that bites). Anyway, the night before the attack came on I made chili (with kidney beans). I didn't eat too much of it that night and the next morning I felt the first twinge of gout. I ate a ton of it the next day (I hadn't yet looked up the food list again so I didn't realize it was bad.) I wonder if it's as simple as eating that. But it seems weird that drinking beer and eating burgers over months wouldn't bring it on and then suddenly a bunch of kidney beans would.

Not only is the type of food you eat a key, but also the frequency and the amount. That's what tipped off my first attack: an enormous amount of lobster on two successive weekends. In all likelihood, my body didn't have a chance to work the purines out of my system in time to head off an attack. I can't definitively say that I wouldn't had suffered that attack had I spaced my gluttony out better, but I'm rather certain that my poor timing contributed to that first attack.

Insofar as chicken being red meat, no, it's not red meat. But I guess it all depends on how you kill it.

Michael

 

[LostAngeles]

My grandfather just developed this. Apparently when someone was explaining it to him, they mentioned that it was a "rich man's disease" because of the diet. (I think this is something that was true several centuries ago.)

"Now, how the hell can I have a rich man's disease because of diet? I'm not a rich man."

These links are very helpful in understanding this though.

On the downside, it means we have to hassle him more about his diet.

 

[Mojo]

I'd also suggest drinking plenty of water. I've had 3 attacks so far (left big toe, right big toe, left knee - actually, the knee wasn't remotely as painful as the toes) and each time I had let myself get a bit dehydrated.

 

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by Number Six [/i]


>>About eight months ago my big toe on my right foot starting hurting more and more so I went to a doc. They looked at it, asked some questions, etc and said it was gout and gave me some anti-inflammatory drugs. The drugs worked, thankfully, because the gout was prett d*** painful and it was hard to even walk.


Drugs are dangerous. And they don't "cure" anything. You can relieve gout with drugs, but it will come back, and you will be going back to them unless and until you alter diet and life style. (exercise) With my first gout attack years ago, I had no clue. I tried to kill the pain and get some sleep with alcohol. Bad idea. I've since learned that the killer foods for me include meat, potatoes, sugar and alcohol, especially in the form of beer and wine. My gout only appeared and re-appared in association with another infection, such as even a weak cold. I've also learned that even the slightest pain in the lower extremities is a pre-curser to a gout attack and I take appropriate measures -- no meat, no potatoes, no sugar, no alcohol but tons of water. A complete fast, except for liquids, is, I think, a good idea. Doing that, I find I beat it within a couple of days or even prevent its onset. That "cure" is just about as fast as those dangerous drugs doctors are only too happy to dispense but much longer lasting. Just as in most maladies, the drug cure can be worse than the disease.

 

[Number Six]

Re: Re: Anyone ever have gout?

Originally posted by Number Six [/i]
Drugs are dangerous. And they don't "cure" anything. You can relieve gout with drugs, but it will come back, and you will be going back to them unless and until you alter diet and life style. (exercise) With my first gout attack years ago, I had no clue. I tried to kill the pain and get some sleep with alcohol. Bad idea. I've since learned that the killer foods for me include meat, potatoes, sugar and alcohol, especially in the form of beer and wine. My gout only appeared and re-appared in association with another infection, such as even a weak cold. I've also learned that even the slightest pain in the lower extremities is a pre-curser to a gout attack and I take appropriate measures -- no meat, no potatoes, no sugar, no alcohol but tons of water. A complete fast, except for liquids, is, I think, a good idea. Doing that, I find I beat it within a couple of days or even prevent its onset. That "cure" is just about as fast as those dangerous drugs doctors are only too happy to dispense but much longer lasting. Just as in most maladies, the drug cure can be worse than the disease.

Drugs are dangerous? What makes you say that? The drugs they gave me helped quickly. Let's see...the problem is inflammation (in the form of uric acid crystal) and anti-inflammatory drugs make inflammation go away. I went from barely being able to walk to being able to walk just fine in about 24 hours. It could be a coincidence but I doubt it. Sounds (and feels) like a good prescription to me. Now of course if you rely solely on drugs then that's dumb. But if you write off drugs completely as being dangerous then that's dumb too.

As far as diet goes it would get good to know exactly what foods affect each person but that is hard to do. First of all it's unclear now long until the dietary changes take affect. And secondly it's unclear exactly which foods affect which people. Potatoes and sugar? None of the stuff I've read has mentioned those. Do they even have purines in them? Just because a particular food is consume before the onset of gout doesn't mean it had anything to do with the gout.

 

[Mojo]

He always says that drugs are dangerous. It's a faith position with him. He's just not prepared to accept that the positive effects can outweigh the negative ones.

 

[Rouser2]

Re: Re: Re: Anyone ever have gout?

Drugs are dangerous? What makes you say that? The drugs they gave me helped quickly. Let's see...the problem is inflammation (in the form of uric acid crystal) and anti-inflammatory drugs make inflammation go away. I went from barely being able to walk to being able to walk just fine in about 24 hours. It could be a coincidence but I doubt it. Sounds (and feels) like a good prescription to me. Now of course if you rely solely on drugs then that's dumb. But if you write off drugs completely as being dangerous then that's dumb too.

As far as diet goes it would get good

 

[Rouser2]

Re: Re: Re: Anyone ever have gout?

Drugs are dangerous? What makes you say that? The drugs they gave me helped quickly. Let's see...the problem is inflammation (in the form of uric acid crystal) and anti-inflammatory drugs make inflammation go away. I went from barely being able to walk to being able to walk just fine in about 24 hours. It could be a coincidence but I doubt it. Sounds (and feels) like a good prescription to me. Now of course if you rely solely on drugs then that's dumb. But if you write off drugs completely as being dangerous then that's dumb too.

As far as diet goes it would get good to know exactly what foods affect each person but that is hard to do. First of all it's unclear now long until the dietary changes take affect. And secondly it's unclear exactly which foods affect which people. Potatoes and sugar? None of the stuff I've read has mentioned those. Do they even have purines in them? Just because a particular food is consume before the onset of gout doesn't mean it had anything to do with the gout.

If a particular drug did no harm, it would not be called a drug. The drug you took was potentially harmful, and still my be harmful in the future -- whatever it was. There is plenty of literature that indicts the "whites" for causing gout. That includes flour, salt and sugar. Potatoes turn into sugar as well. Anyone who contracts gout would be very foolish to not take into account what they have been eating and drinking the days just before the onset of pain. It's pretty clear to me, that in order to contract gout, all I have to do is get a cold or some other infection, and drink lots of alcohol, especially beer, along with plenty of red meat, potatoes and sugar laden foods -- candies, pastry, etc., etc., etc. There are people who are regular gout customers for their foot doctors and their magic pain killing potions. I am not one of them.

 

[Number Six]

Do you realize that in your first sentence you essentially that every drug that exists is by definition harmful? To be honest it's hard for me to take anything you say seriously after that. (Or if you want to be really technichal then every drug causes harm in the same sense that everything that exists causes some harm, in which case there's no point in distinguishing drugs from anything else in the first place.)

 

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by Number Six [/i]

>>Do you realize that in your first sentence you essentially that every drug that exists is by definition harmful?

Yes.

>> To be honest it's hard for me to take anything you say seriously after that.

Oh, but that's pretty much the line that any FDA official will give you.

But not to get boggoed down in semantics, just out of curiousity, what drug or drugs have you been taking for gout???

 

[Number Six]

The first time I had gout the doctor prescribed Indocin (I think). When I had it again recently I bought Advil over the counter.

Just out of curiousity, why do you say that drugs by definition are harmful? And do you also contend that non-drugs by definition are harmful than drug?

 

[Mojo]

Do you realize that in your first sentence you essentially that every drug that exists is by definition harmful? To be honest it's hard for me to take anything you say seriously after that. (Or if you want to be really technichal then every drug causes harm in the same sense that everything that exists causes some harm, in which case there's no point in distinguishing drugs from anything else in the first place.)

Actually, Rouser is right here. Drugs have to have a powerful physiological effect to work, so side effects of some kind are pretty much inevitable in a system as complicated as the body. The thing is to get the therapeutic doseage right, so that side effects are minimised while the drug still does what we want it to do.