i have driven several, and talked to people who own them. they seem to universally love them, and i thought both the honda and prius handled wonderfully.
There was a thread about just this that manfred started some months ago--try doing a search on the forum.
There was a thread about just this that manfred started some months ago--try doing a search on the forum.
Keep in mind, it may not be the most economical route. I've read that a hybrid honda Civic can cost as much as $10,000 more than the gas version.uruk said:
At today's prices, that price differential would buy about 5,000 gallons of gas. If a conventional gas-engine Civic gets 25 mpg overall, you'd go 125,000 miles before you make up the difference.
Not saying you shouldn't buy it, but be prepared for the idea that it might not save you as much money as you think.
Warren Brown, automotive writer for the Washington Post is a very clear-headed writer when it comes to things automotive. He had an online chat a couple of weeks ago here. One writer's query was similar to yours:
"Anonymous: I desperately want to get a hybrid but am a mom with 2 boys and need to cart them and their stuff. I currently have a 2000 Mazda MPV that I love but HATE at the gas pump.
Will the 2005 Toyota Highlander Hybrid make me feel better at the pump and at peace with the environment and still let me keep peace inside the vehicle (enough room to separate the kids)?
Love your chats and love you. "
"Warren Brown: You know, Anonymous, here is one of the many places where I part company with my more liberal and environmentally minded friends.
No, it wouldn't make any sense for you to buy the Highlander Hybrid, and here's why: It's going to cost significantly more than a similar, gasoline-powered vehicle. Although it will have cleaner emissions, they won't be that much cleaner.
You are going to wind up paying from $5,000 to $10,000 more for a Highlander Hybrid than you will for, say, a comparable 2004 Mazpa MPV. That's money, too. And if you finance it, that's more money. That's one heck of a lot of gasoline!
Are you concerned about the environment? Dpo these things:
. Consolidate your vehicle trips whenever possible.
. Keep your vehicle well maintained, your tires properly inflated.
. Open the windows of your home. Turn off the air conditioner. Welcome the summer breeze.
. Start a campaign to limit the use of limousines and private jets by Arianna Huffington and her very rich, environmentally conscious friends.
. Work for legislation to limit the sizes of private residences, and the numbers of residences that can be owned by any one family.
. Work for a moratorium on the construction of any more land-consuming, water-guzzling golf courses.
. Limit the number of energy consuming press conferences that can be held in one year by any environmental group or politician buying elective office.
. Buy the car or truck or SUV that you and your family need and want and be very happy. "
He's obviously tongue-in cheek with the last few suggestions, but definitely food for thought.
And I'm not anti-hybrid. I drove the Honda hatchback model a couple of years ago (owned by a Green Party acquaintance, so I give her credit for the courage of her convictions), and was impressed. Had the typical Honda solid feel, and except when you were sitting at a light, when it fell disconcertingly silent, was indistinguishable from a gas-powered car. I think they're the wave of the future - who knows when the hell hydrogen power will get here? - and five years from now, when everyone's making them, supply and demand will catch up with each other and dealers won't be able to charge that staggering price markup they can get away with today.
Wally
Thinker
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2003
- Messages
- 229
Another consideration is you normal driving habits. If you do a lot of highway commuting the hybrid is little better than the conventional version of the same car. In steady state highway driving it’s just an efficient gasoline vehicle. The hybrid part only kicks in in stop and go urban type use. This is why these cars get better EPA ratings in city driving than highway.
uruk
Philosopher
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2003
- Messages
- 5,311
Thanks all who responded.
I was looking around. And found the Honda civic. It starts at about $20,000.00 and supposed to get between 40 - 60 mpg in the city. depending on which brocure you read.
the problen is that I'm 6'1" and tip the scale at 350lbs. The civic is a tight fit. I guess I'll wait for a hybrid pickup or SUV
I was looking around. And found the Honda civic. It starts at about $20,000.00 and supposed to get between 40 - 60 mpg in the city. depending on which brocure you read.
the problen is that I'm 6'1" and tip the scale at 350lbs. The civic is a tight fit. I guess I'll wait for a hybrid pickup or SUV
QuarkChild
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2002
- Messages
- 354
My best friend has a hybrid and absolutely loves it. However, I can see how the extra expense up front could make it unaffordable for many people. I really hope that someday hybrids will be more mainstream and more affordable.
In the meantime, I take the bus, because I am incredibly lucky and live in a city with a comprehensive and cheap public transportation system.
I used to drive a civic. They are very compact and get good gas mileage. I can see how they wouldn't be ideal for a big person, though.
In the meantime, I take the bus, because I am incredibly lucky and live in a city with a comprehensive and cheap public transportation system.
I used to drive a civic. They are very compact and get good gas mileage. I can see how they wouldn't be ideal for a big person, though.
wildflower1
Scholar
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2004
- Messages
- 69
I drive a 2001 Prius and average 45 mpg for combined city/highway driving, primarily because I use the a/c a lot and rarely drive slower than 75 mph on the flat freeways that make up most of my long distance driving.
At 49,000 miles I've had no problems with the car, only having to replace the tires at 28,000 miles (which, judging from the Prius message board, is about average).
Don't know if it's still true, but when I bought mine, the purchase price included all routine maintenance for the first 36,000 miles, and the hybrid components are warranteed for 100,000 miles.
And when I'm running in stealth mode (electric only), I can startle pedestrians in parking lots all day.
The California state legislature is on its way to allowing hybrid vehicles with a sole occupant (hope that it will be the driver) to use the carpool lanes. One legislator is playing the class warfare card, claiming that only "rich people" will benefit from this. But when one compares the average cost of a hybrid vehicle to the average cost of SUVs, that line doesn't make a whole lotta sense.
At 49,000 miles I've had no problems with the car, only having to replace the tires at 28,000 miles (which, judging from the Prius message board, is about average).
Don't know if it's still true, but when I bought mine, the purchase price included all routine maintenance for the first 36,000 miles, and the hybrid components are warranteed for 100,000 miles.
And when I'm running in stealth mode (electric only), I can startle pedestrians in parking lots all day.
The California state legislature is on its way to allowing hybrid vehicles with a sole occupant (hope that it will be the driver) to use the carpool lanes. One legislator is playing the class warfare card, claiming that only "rich people" will benefit from this. But when one compares the average cost of a hybrid vehicle to the average cost of SUVs, that line doesn't make a whole lotta sense.
davefoc
Philosopher
Our local newspaper ran a story about various high fuel efficiency alternative vehicles.
The winner in their mind was the diesel volkswagons which weren't that far in reported milege from the hybrids. Based on the article linked to by BobK it sounds like the diesel Volkswagons might get better mieage than the hybrids.
My only information on hybrid gas mileage (other than this thread) are a report by a stranger that he was getting 51 mpg with his Prius (he said he'd do better but his wife made him drive fast) and a report from somebody that knows Ed Begley Junior who told me that Ed Begley was getting 56 mpg with his.
The winner in their mind was the diesel volkswagons which weren't that far in reported milege from the hybrids. Based on the article linked to by BobK it sounds like the diesel Volkswagons might get better mieage than the hybrids.
My only information on hybrid gas mileage (other than this thread) are a report by a stranger that he was getting 51 mpg with his Prius (he said he'd do better but his wife made him drive fast) and a report from somebody that knows Ed Begley Junior who told me that Ed Begley was getting 56 mpg with his.
Bikewer
Penultimate Amazing
There's another sort of hybrid that gets unbeatable mileage, the hybrid bike.
Hehe...those are the "in-between" jobs that have a road-bike frame (for the most part) and mountain-bike components. Nice, comfy upright seating position, suspension, lots of gears....An ideal commuter bike.
And many miles per fig newton.
Hehe...those are the "in-between" jobs that have a road-bike frame (for the most part) and mountain-bike components. Nice, comfy upright seating position, suspension, lots of gears....An ideal commuter bike.
And many miles per fig newton.
Bikewer said:
My bike gets 30 miles to a fulll charge, sits in the apartment garage so the electricity is free
Though it still only cost about $0.02 to charge it to full. I've ridden over 1,000 miles on my e-bike and convert that to gas and with gas prices the bike has almost paid for itself over the last two months.The people I bought the conversion kit were so impressed they feature it on their website.
http://store.nycewheels.com/nycewheels-electric-conversion-installed.html
Bike's top speed is 25 MPH and even with the large SUV like bike tires, I can get between 32 and up to 60 miles per charge if I pedal with it
bignickel
Mad Mod Poet God
I've had a Honda Insight for 3 years now. It surprises me that it's still $20K for a hybrid? Thought they would have come down by now.
I was able to get it to 55 mpg in the first year, city and country. Since then, it's steadily dipped down to 53.8 mpg.
Acceleration from 30 to 50 isn't the best, but once you get it going, it can easily zoom up to 80 on level ground if you're not careful.
The battery (not your starter/ignition battery; the one that powers the electric drive) has a tendency to drain to nil on very hot and very cold days. No worries; get on the highway for 5 minutes, and you'll be all charged up. HOWEVER - accelerating ONTO the highway to do that can be tricky, because, since your battery is dead, you have to rely on only 2 cylinders to get you up to top speed. Sometimes harrowing.
If your a/c or heater isn't on, the car's engine will tend to auto shut off at a red light. This, in theory, saves gas. When you press down the on the pedal, it restarts the engine without a hitch. In theory. In practice, occasionally, the light turns green, you press down, and nothing happens. Lift your foot, press down, wallah, it starts and you go. What happens is that you tend to leave the a/c (in econo mode) / heater on all the time to prevent the engine from shutting off automatically.
That's peanuts compared to 2 other things: your engine did NOT shut off at the light, your a/c /heater is not on, and your car is in neutral. Light changes to green. You push down the clutch to move into first gear.... and the engine stops. Lift your foot, press down again, and take off while cursing. Worse yet: light turns green, you put your foot down, engine is on, but your car only bumps forward a foot: you're flooding the engine. How can that be? -> You pressed down the accelerator just as you normally do. What gives? Lift foot, press down slowly, and take off while punching your dashboard.
The car is made of extruded aluminum. Therefore -> VERY light. It's the reason that your getting such great milage. Plus: it can't rust! Downside: noisy. Outside noise easily gets in. Keep that radio cranked.
Be careful on icy roads. Light body means not much stopping power. But maybe I'm just not used to computerized braking?
Lastly, pull into a gas station when gas prices are +$2/gallon. Fill up, and say adios for 2 weeks!
I was able to get it to 55 mpg in the first year, city and country. Since then, it's steadily dipped down to 53.8 mpg.
Acceleration from 30 to 50 isn't the best, but once you get it going, it can easily zoom up to 80 on level ground if you're not careful.
The battery (not your starter/ignition battery; the one that powers the electric drive) has a tendency to drain to nil on very hot and very cold days. No worries; get on the highway for 5 minutes, and you'll be all charged up. HOWEVER - accelerating ONTO the highway to do that can be tricky, because, since your battery is dead, you have to rely on only 2 cylinders to get you up to top speed. Sometimes harrowing.
If your a/c or heater isn't on, the car's engine will tend to auto shut off at a red light. This, in theory, saves gas. When you press down the on the pedal, it restarts the engine without a hitch. In theory. In practice, occasionally, the light turns green, you press down, and nothing happens. Lift your foot, press down, wallah, it starts and you go. What happens is that you tend to leave the a/c (in econo mode) / heater on all the time to prevent the engine from shutting off automatically.
That's peanuts compared to 2 other things: your engine did NOT shut off at the light, your a/c /heater is not on, and your car is in neutral. Light changes to green. You push down the clutch to move into first gear.... and the engine stops. Lift your foot, press down again, and take off while cursing. Worse yet: light turns green, you put your foot down, engine is on, but your car only bumps forward a foot: you're flooding the engine. How can that be? -> You pressed down the accelerator just as you normally do. What gives? Lift foot, press down slowly, and take off while punching your dashboard.
The car is made of extruded aluminum. Therefore -> VERY light. It's the reason that your getting such great milage. Plus: it can't rust! Downside: noisy. Outside noise easily gets in. Keep that radio cranked.
Be careful on icy roads. Light body means not much stopping power. But maybe I'm just not used to computerized braking?
Lastly, pull into a gas station when gas prices are +$2/gallon. Fill up, and say adios for 2 weeks!
davefoc said:
Diesel cars get more miles per gallon, but that's apples to oranges because diesel contains more energy per gallon.
Diesel is a concentrate. So you get more "miles per gallon", but not really, and it's slightly more expensive per gallon and pollutes a heckuva lot more.
For example, the 2003 diesel Jetta's EPA pollution score is a 1! The worst in its class!
fishbob
Seasonally Disaffected
Is that per mile driven or per gallon burned? I think that would make a very big difference.
QuarkChild said:
Yes - I get to commute in Quarkchild's Civic now because my Jeep Comanche P/U is now only for trips to Home Depot, kayaking and camping. The Civic (1999) gets 30 MPG but people just ignore you on the freeway. They zip around me and just cut right back in, no blinker or nothing. Also at 6'1 & 225#'s it's not that comfy. Now in 1976, in one of our previous gas crunches, I bought a Renault LeCar - now that was a mistake but the sun roof was fun. 40 plus MPG. Needed a tinker and a tuneup every month! I remember one time a very large dog ran out into the street and didn't see me and ran into the side of the front fender (I was going slow). It just ran off and I had a bent fender. People and dogs do not respect small cars. Next month I pick up my new vehicle - a 2004 diesel E-350 Ford van with 4x4 conversion, 33" tires and 5 inch lift. No one will mess with me then!
Not all hybrids are the same
"Another consideration is you normal driving habits. If you do a lot of highway commuting the hybrid is little better than the conventional version of the same car. In steady state highway driving it’s just an efficient gasoline vehicle. The hybrid part only kicks in in stop and go urban type use. This is why these cars get better EPA ratings in city driving than highway."
This generalization isn't true. I believe it applies to the Prius. It does not apply to the Insight. The Insight gets much better mileage in highway driving. The regenerative braking helps stop and go be better than it would have been without it, but applying the brake will always cost you in the Insight.
After three years I am averaging about 65 mpg (which on average would be better than the EPA rating). A few morning commutes I exceed 90 mpg, and during the summer I am routinely at least in the 80s. You have to learn how to drove most efficiently, and for that you should join one of the hybrid discussion groups. I believe my results are pretty average for the knowledgeable Insight driver.
You do need to take into account your type of driving and match that to the appropriate hybrid.
"Another consideration is you normal driving habits. If you do a lot of highway commuting the hybrid is little better than the conventional version of the same car. In steady state highway driving it’s just an efficient gasoline vehicle. The hybrid part only kicks in in stop and go urban type use. This is why these cars get better EPA ratings in city driving than highway."
This generalization isn't true. I believe it applies to the Prius. It does not apply to the Insight. The Insight gets much better mileage in highway driving. The regenerative braking helps stop and go be better than it would have been without it, but applying the brake will always cost you in the Insight.
After three years I am averaging about 65 mpg (which on average would be better than the EPA rating). A few morning commutes I exceed 90 mpg, and during the summer I am routinely at least in the 80s. You have to learn how to drove most efficiently, and for that you should join one of the hybrid discussion groups. I believe my results are pretty average for the knowledgeable Insight driver.
You do need to take into account your type of driving and match that to the appropriate hybrid.