Any valid CTs?

[Overman]

There are many famous CTs, and many are famous for having insane irritional followers, or people who just don't know better...

Are there any CTs that are likely to be real, or real events that have proven to be a conspiricy? I would Imagine that people in power would have covered up some dirty deed on some large scale somewhere on Earth before...

 

[twinstead]

If we know about it, it wouldn't be that great of a conspiracy, would it?

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

In no particular order:
* The Final Solution (prior to its being proven by invading Allied forces)
* Gov't radiation/syphilus(sp?) testing on unknowing minorities during the Cold War
* American revolution (prior to the fighting starting)

*shrug*

 

[drfrank]

Well, it was shown that the claims of weapons in Iraq were jazzed up to improve public opinion of the war. That's pretty much a genuine busted conspiracy.

 

[Upchurch]

the coverup of the Watergate break in, maybe?

 

[Johnny Pixels]

I was just looking at the wikipedia article on conspiracy theories, and there's a list of possible real conspiracies.

Article

However, it also says that the ability of the British to keep ULTRA, the cracking of German codes, a secret until the 1970s, shows that the lack of whistleblowers etc is not an indicator that something isn't a conspiracy. I would argue that the people involved knew that the success of the war and their lives depended on keeping it a secret. A whistleblower in the ULTRA program would not be a whistleblower, but a traitor and guilty of treason. That's a very different stand to take than speaking out against the governmental murder of 3000 people.

 

[Dazed]

The United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations was established in 1976 to investigate the John F. Kennedy assassination and the Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. assassination. The Committee investigated until 1978, and in 1979 issued its final report, concluding that President John F. Kennedy was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald, probably as a result of a conspiracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Select_Committee_on_Assassinations

 

[kevin]

However, it also says that the ability of the British to keep ULTRA, the cracking of German codes, a secret until the 1970s, shows that the lack of whistleblowers etc is not an indicator that something isn't a conspiracy.

I think there is a difference between keeping something secret, and covering up crimes. was ULTRA a conspiracy?

 

[jhunter1163]

ULTRA was basically the knowledge that Britain had obtained German code machines and therefore was able to decipher German coded messages almost in real time. Obviously this was an enormous advantage and one which the Brits exploited to the fullest. Keeping the fact that Germany's codes were compromised secret was one of the biggest triumphs of intelligence in history. Bravo to the Brits. (tips hat)

 

[kevin]

ULTRA was basically the knowledge that Britain had obtained German code machines

Sorry, I know what ULTRA is/was. Is it a conspiracy? According to various online dictionaries a conspiracy is:

a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act
a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act (especially a political plot)
a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose

I don't think ULTRA qualifies.

 

[jhunter1163]

Well, then how about the CIA's experiments with mind control/LSD on uninformed subjects back in the '50's? Or the disappearances of Jimmy Hoffa or Judge Crater? Not so much that they disappeared, but who might have been looking the other way when they went....

 

[kookbreaker]

In no particular order:

* Gov't radiation/syphilus(sp?) testing on unknowing minorities during the Cold War

*shrug*

That one is kind of weak, since even some of the minority doctor groups knew about it and supported it.

There is a difference between a conspiracy and something poeple outside a profession just aren't much aware of.

 

[thaiboxerken]

The government "psychic research" program.

 

[Dave1001]

Sorry, I know what ULTRA is/was. Is it a conspiracy? According to various online dictionaries a conspiracy is:

a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act (especially a political plot)
a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose

I don't think ULTRA qualifies.

On what basis? It was certainly a harmful act towards nazi germany. It only couldn't be considered a harmful act in a winners write history sort of way.

 

[Johnny Pixels]

I think there is a difference between keeping something secret, and covering up crimes. was ULTRA a conspiracy?

I wouldn't say that ULTRA was a conspiracy, otherwise keeping trade secrets would become a conspiracy.

That's why I disagree with the notion that ULTRA proves that there won't always be whistleblowers with a conspiracy. Conspiracies, to me at least, suggest some kind of immoral or illegal activity that must be kept secret. That's why there are whistleblowers, because some people (but not all) have a conscience, and realise at some time or another that what is going on is wrong. That wouldn't happen with ultra, because the program was intercepting and decoding German signals, which was both legal, and moral, because it protected British people. It is hard to see (for me at least) how anyone could view this as worthy of revealing, as doing so would jepordise millions of lives. Such a person would not be a whistleblower, but more of a defector.

On the other hand, to have the capability to decode signals, and then NOT use it, would be immoral, and therefore by my terms, be a conspiracy. I would therefore expect people to speak out against this, because the government would be wasting lives when they could act to save them. Although I do realise in this particular example a paradox arises, where if someone were to speak out about the government capability, then that would immediately render the capability useless as the enemy would become aware, but I think that is just particular to this example, and not the general case.

 

[Pardalis]

Here is one true conspiracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponsorship_scandal

 

[Wavicle]

There are many famous CTs, and many are famous for having insane irritional followers, or people who just don't know better...

Are there any CTs that are likely to be real, or real events that have proven to be a conspiricy? I would Imagine that people in power would have covered up some dirty deed on some large scale somewhere on Earth before...

Not sure if this is particularly worthy of CT status, but...

The three surviving perpetrators of the 1972 Munich Olympics kidnapping, were released under very suspicious circumstances. Basically a large plane carrying a suspiciously small number of passengers, none of whom were women or children, is supposedly hijacked. The German government, without talking to the Israeli government, quickly gives the three of them up to end the crisis.

You can't really blame them. The way the whole situation during the hostage crises was handled was so unbelievably bad, I'm sure to them it seemed pretty reasonable to cook up another mess to make the first one go away - which for the most part it did.

I haven't seen the new movie they made on the subject (titled "Munich" I believe) so I don't know if there is any new spin on the subject presented there.

 

[Johnny Pixels]

Not sure if this is particularly worthy of CT status, but...

The three surviving perpetrators of the 1972 Munich Olympics kidnapping, were released under very suspicious circumstances. Basically a large plane carrying a suspiciously small number of passengers, none of whom were women or children, is supposedly hijacked. The German government, without talking to the Israeli government, quickly gives the three of them up to end the crisis.

You can't really blame them. The way the whole situation during the hostage crises was handled was so unbelievably bad, I'm sure to them it seemed pretty reasonable to cook up another mess to make the first one go away - which for the most part it did.

I haven't seen the new movie they made on the subject (titled "Munich" I believe) so I don't know if there is any new spin on the subject presented there.

That's the claim made in "One Day in September", and I think it came from Jamal Al Gashey, the terrorist who features in the documentary and I meant to investigate how true that was. Except I never really got round to it (Hey it's summer, and Frisbee is more fun), so if anyone does have anything I'd like to know

 

[Mr. Skinny]

The assassination of Abraham Lincoln was found to be a conspiracy, and not simply the act of a lone gunman (John Wilkes Booth).

 

[rudar]

Well, one would think that the World Trade Center attacks *were*, in fact, a conspiracy. Just that the conspirators were the *terrorists*, not the US government.