Another Zarqawi Report

[NoZed Avenger]

. . . but this one has some corroboration.

Zarqawi Reported Dead


The report matches earlier reports regarding his wounding and doctors. No way to know, but this has a little more to it than earlier rumors.

We'll see. Maybe.

 

[Jocko]

If this pans out, it looks like he was gutshot and spent a couple weeks dying. Good.

 

[Grammatron]

If this pans out, it looks like he was gutshot and spent a couple weeks dying. Good.

Wait, wait, so there is a god? :boggle:

On a serious note, do we have some Zarqawi DNA on file to confirm the dead dude is him?

 

[Tony]

Besides the "yes, we got him" factor, does his death really hold any significance in the victory against the insurgents?

 

[Grammatron]

Besides the "yes, we got him" factor, does his death really hold any significance in the victory against the insurgents?

Well it's not a high morale booster, that's for sure.

If he is indeed dead, it would send a nice message that in a relatively short period of time (it's been about two years) we can get you or kill you. I am sure it won't stop 100% of attacks, but taking out a high-profile leader lowers the scae and co-ordination of these attacks.

 

[Number Six]

If Zarqawi is dead it won't only boost US morale but will make the anti-insurgent side look more attractive to the people in Iraq. I read recently that the US and the Iraqi government were trying to de-mythologize Zarqawi because he was becoming a big deal to some people, a high profile guy taunting the government and the US, etc. It makes the insurgent side look stronger in the sense of "They can't even get that one guy" even though it's kida deceptive because keeping one guy safe is relatively easy.

So I doubt it will have a big short term effect but it'll be a brick on the long term wall if it's true.

 

[CapelDodger]

... an Iraqi Sunni sheikh, Ammar Abdel Rahim Nasir, has told the Saudi on-line newspaper Al-Medina. He claims that gunfights which broke out in Fallujah in the last few days involved militants trying to protect the insurgency leader's tomb from a group of American soldiers patrolling the area.

It shouldn't be that hard to triangulate the tomb's location if this is accurate. Is his tomb to become a shrine, like Ali's? A remarkable piece of Koranic exegesis for Wahabbists, but nobody expects logic in that environment. If the head-bangers are going to protect it in perpetuity it'll be the perfect tar-baby.

 

[Number Six]

After thinking about this it makes me wonder how this story got out there. Some possibilities:

1. The news source that first published the story is just making things up to get attention.

2. The news source that first published the story really did have someone give them the info but that person did it just to get attention.

3. The news source that first published the story really did have someone give them the info but the info was purposely planted by the insurgents either to gauge the reaction or to send the Iraqi government and the US down a blind trail.

4. Everyone is consciously honest but it's just that things got mixed up somewhere and the story is mistaken.

5. Everyone is consciously honest and the story is true.

6. Something else that I can't think of.

 

[CapelDodger]

If Zarqawi is dead it won't only boost US morale but will make the anti-insurgent side look more attractive to the people in Iraq. I read recently that the US and the Iraqi government were trying to de-mythologize Zarqawi because he was becoming a big deal to some people, a high profile guy taunting the government and the US, etc. It makes the insurgent side look stronger in the sense of "They can't even get that one guy" even though it's kida deceptive because keeping one guy safe is relatively easy.

So I doubt it will have a big short term effect but it'll be a brick on the long term wall if it's true.

The irony being that the US and Iraqis like Chalabi mythologised Zarqawi in the first place to bolster their rhetorical connection between Saddam, al-Qaeda and 9/11.

US forces morale will be boosted by any change in their environment, not by news that some Great Satan has been slain by some guy, somewhere, sometime. Slowly or not. Had it been a locate, pin-down, storm-and-kill operation it would have been a different matter. Zarqawi dead cannot be de-mythologised, the feet are cold but not clay. It rather exemplifies what the hundreds of suicidalists that have reportedly been processed through his organisation are seeking. Ideally what you want is a captured Zarqawi in his underpants eating a bacon sandwich on camera, but a captured Zarqawi would be good in itself.

 

[CapelDodger]

After thinking about this it makes me wonder how this story got out there. Some possibilities:

...

6. Something else that I can't think of.

6.1 Iraqi Sunni sheikh Ammar Abdel Rahim Nasir has an election coming up and wants publicity.

 

[Number Six]

I'm not talking about the suicide nuts I'm talking about the general Iraqi population. A proven dead al-Zarqawi would be de-mythologized quite a bit just like the Hussein family was when Uday and Qasay were killed. Remember, at the time lots of people didn't even believe it was really them because even though the Husseins had been driven from power they still seemed invulnerable.

The US is never going to win the minds of the nuts but if they can win the minds of the Iraqi populace at large then this whole thing will takes a different tone, first of all because the nuts would have a tougher environment to operate in and secondly because the nuts would then become the bad guys in the minds of many people in the world in whose eyes they're currently good guys or neutral guys.

And are you seriously saying that the morale of US forces wouldn't be boosted by the death of al-Zarqawi? I disagree strongly with that.

 

[Roadtoad]

If there's any justice, he's dead.

And his virgins are all male, and the grapes they feed him are sour.

 

[peptoabysmal]

Nothing would make me happier than the news that this dirtbag is dead, but this story is starting to remind me of the Monty Python "bring out your dead" scene.

 

[NoZed Avenger]

Nothing would make me happier than the news that this dirtbag is dead, but this story is starting to remind me of the Monty Python "bring out your dead" scene.

Any number of episodes come to mind.


"Now that's what I call a dead terrorist."

"No, he's pining."

 

[demon]

With respect this report is utter bollocks from start to finish. Muslims do not ask for no funeral to be held for them even if they are "extremists"'.
They would have said compulsory Janazah prayers for him if he had existed and had been killed. It is obviously another exercise in disinformation. The language being used in these reports is identical to that used for Osama Bin Laden a few years ago.

These kind of reports seem purely destined for the non-muslim audience who would not know that Janazah prayers are compulsory for the passing of all muslims. This is a special congregation public prayer to accompany the soul of the departed. It is held in public or in a mosque in the presence of the coffin. There are no branches of Islam in which it is not required or circumstances in which it may be waived. The quick burial required for muslims means that the body is washed and cleansed and Janazah prayers are held within a couple of days of the death.

 

[CapelDodger]

With respect this report is utter bollocks from start to finish. Muslims do not ask for no funeral to be held for them even if they are "extremists"'.

The idea of protecting his tomb jars more than a little as well. And this

Nasir adds that in his will the insurgent leader left the order that no funeral should be held for him and the right to announce his death should be left to the al-Qaeda leadership in Afghanistan and Osama bin Laden.

makes the antennae twitch. "The King slipped away peacefully, but just before he did he said I was to have Scotland ..." It makes you wonder, if he is dead, who held the pillow on his face. The "al-Qaeda leadership in Afghanistan and Osama bin Laden" have been rather eclipsed recently. Thinking of which, isn't bin Laden supposed to be dead? It'd be cute if Zarqawi's guys had put that one around.

From the Black Propaganda angle, this release makes him guilty of personality cult and neglect of funeral ritual. And that al-Qaeda leadership also has the world's biggest media-operation working to get attention back on them. It's either remarkable karma or great finesse.

I'm of the opinion that Zarqawi died weeks or months ago, was buried with due ritual somewhere anonymous, and the succession has been established. Mostly out of view of the West or the Iraqi government. That's my provisional take, worth a "Told you so" if it pans out and need never be mentioned again if it doesn't.

 

[demon]

Look at this bit too:
"Were a neighbouring country to take him in and provide medical assistance or haven for him, they obviously would be associating themselves with a major linkage in the al-Qaeda network, and a person who has a great deal of blood on his hands," Rumsfeld continued. "And that's something that people would want to
take note of."

Now, wouldn`t it be strange if next we hear he was actually alive and well in say, oh, I don't know, Iran, just to pick a country at random.
They would then be accused of harbouring terorists and the pretext for the next attack would be established.... call me cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised. Actually, as far as the claim that he escaped to Iran, I`m sure I saw that published somewhere a week ago.

There is a good article on "Big, Bad Abu Musab al-Zarqawi" here...it`s well worth a look.


quote:
Big, Bad Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
The creation of a myth
Is it time to ‘dispose’ of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi? Has he ‘outlived’ his usefulness?
By William Bowles • Wednesday, 1 June 2005


Abu Musab al-Zarqawi – a man notorious for his alleged ruthlessness – is suspected of direct involvement in the kidnap and beheading of several foreigners in Iraq – even of wielding the knife himself.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3483089.stm

A headline to conjure with no doubt, though clearly whoever writes this drivel needs to go back to journalism school and get a lesson in sentence construction. “Alleged” and “suspected”, but nevertheless there’s no doubt that he’s “notorious”, what for, his allegedness?

Fascinating the way the media operates. Note here that the words that will stick won’t be his allegedness but his ruthlessness and his notoriety, that is, after all, entirely the objective of this piece of disinformation.

Now whether the BBC is leading or being led makes little difference. I’m not sure if people even care about Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. What does count however, is the overall impression that’s created, that is after all the objective, to deflect attention from the real issues through the creation of a mythological figure, the archetypal ‘bogey-man’, who comes and goes at will, seemingly impervious to capture. Able to slip across borders that are we are told, under surveillance 24/7, first he’s here then he’s there, he moves at the speed of light, the master of disguise, blah-blah-blah…

http://www.williambowles.info/

 

[CapelDodger]

I'm not talking about the suicide nuts I'm talking about the general Iraqi population. A proven dead al-Zarqawi would be de-mythologized quite a bit just like the Hussein family was when Uday and Qasay were killed.

Not really. The Ba'athists were about the killing, not the being killed, whereas the bliss-merchants are about both. The death of the Husseini brothers might have demoralized the Ba'athists (I don't think so myself) and no doubt pleased the general population, it pleased the hell out of me. Zarqawi's trip to heaven can be seen in the same way. Have things improved on the ground over the last few weeks? No sign of it that I can see.

The crucial population isn't the general or the suicide nuts, it's the grey area of swing-voters between the two. I wouldn't make any assumptions about how such a mysterious audience will take this.

 

[CapelDodger]

Now, wouldn`t it be strange if next we hear he was actually alive and well in say, oh, I don't know, Iran, just to pick a country at random.

I'll pick Syria, not randomly but on the odds.
They would then be accused of harbouring terorists and the pretext for the next attack would be established.... call me cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised. Actually, as far as the claim that he escaped to Iran, I`m sure I saw that published somewhere a week ago.

Has he ‘outlived’ his usefulness?

Maybe someone who sends out suicidalists has a shelf-life. Zarqawi's putative death after action at least puts him up at the sharp end, rather than hiding cunningly in caves from the shitstorm he summoned up.

It strikes me that al-Qaeda are losing ground in the Arab world and becoming eastern just as the Catholic Church is losing ground in Europe and becoming third-world. The missionary regions, once a source of added strength in the metropolitan struggle, become the definition of the fading power.

 

[Skeptic]

Besides the "yes, we got him" factor, does his death really hold any significance in the victory against the insurgents?

You just answered your own question there...