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Another reason to rethink the death penalty

From the link:

His supporters cite Williams' efforts to curb youth gang violence, including nine children's books and an online project linking teenagers in America and abroad.
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Yep, sure sounds like a "low-life of immense proportions."
 
Cleon said:
From the link:



Yep, sure sounds like a "low-life of immense proportions."
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Cold blooded killer.

Tell me, does doing some good acts give you leave to murder? I mean, if I write some stuff and it has traction can I go out and kill someone? Anyone will fight for life, his approach appears to have groupies is all.
 
This story has been on NPR a couple/few times the past few weeks.

A couple children's books will not undo what this guy has done.
 
Hey, can someone link to his apology to his victims? Before forming an opinion I'd be curious to read it to see if he took real responsibility for his crimes.
 
Ed said:
Cold blooded killer.

Tell me, does doing some good acts give you leave to murder? I mean, if I write some stuff and it has traction can I go out and kill someone? Anyone will fight for life, his approach appears to have groupies is all.
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Turn that question around. Can you kill someone, and then repent for it and try to do good?

Can a "cold-blooded killer" become a decent human being?
 
So, if this guy is completely reformed, regrets his crimes and is willing to go out into society and try and right some of his wrongs by getting kids of the street and reducing the chances of them commiting murders in the future, he still deserves the death penalty?

Rehabilitation not high on the list for the penal code, then?
 
3point14 said:
So, if this guy is completely reformed, regrets his crimes and is willing to go out into society and try and right some of his wrongs by getting kids of the street and reducing the chances of them commiting murders in the future, he still deserves the death penalty?

Rehabilitation not high on the list for the penal code, then?
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He has never admitted to the murders and therefore has never apologised.

BTW, one of his sons is in the slammer for murder, the other some other nice act. Great influence.
 
manny said:
Hey, can someone link to his apology to his victims? Before forming an opinion I'd be curious to read it to see if he took real responsibility for his crimes.
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You can find it on Tookie's website of course. http://www.tookie.com/apology.html


I have been following this for some time and find it almost fictional that an Austrian bodybuilder/action star, now Govenor, will decide the fate of Stanley "Tookie" Williams. For those who don't know he murdered four people in two robberies on the same day in 1979. A 7-11 clerk and a family of three.

I was wondering if a few children's books and some famous friends excuse the cold-blooded murder of a family of three?
 
Fair enough. If he's not repentant, then all my rehabilitaion arguments fall down pretty heavily.

Rats.
 
3point14 said:
Fair enough. If he's not repentant, then all my rehabilitaion arguments fall down pretty heavily.

Rats.
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And note that I am not saying that this scummy excuse for a human being should be executed. I am saying that a sentence is a sentence whether or not you have Bianca (used to be a hottie) Jagger on your side. If it is not the case I have problems with executions generally.

I sort of think of the Hollywood crowd (not Farrell, he seems pretty sharp to me) as being reminicent of the Upper Class Twit of the Year contestants (that will be #9 for future reference, BP). It is the fact these loons, by their presence, can alter a verdict (not their stupid arguments) that gives me serious pause.
 
manny said:
Hey, can someone link to his apology to his victims? Before forming an opinion I'd be curious to read it to see if he took real responsibility for his crimes.
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What does apologizing for an action have to do with "taking responsibility"?
 
Nothing, if the action is not something for which an apology (at a minimum) is required. Everything, if it is.
 
Melendwyr said:
What does apologizing for an action have to do with "taking responsibility"?
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About as much as a kidnap victem "confessing" to some "crime".

I am pretty sure that any confession (therefore, statement) obtained under duress is not binding. Tookie is under duress, connect the dots.
 
Ed said:
Tell me, does doing some good acts give you leave to murder? I mean, if I write some stuff and it has traction can I go out and kill someone?
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"Leave"? Is anyone suggesting he be released from jail? What's wrong with offering death row inmates clemency if they can convince sufficiently large portions of the population that they deserve it?
 
Art Vandelay said:
"Leave"? Is anyone suggesting he be released from jail? What's wrong with offering death row inmates clemency if they can convince sufficiently large portions of the population that they deserve it?
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Umm, law is a popularity contest? It really dosen't work that way.
 
It's been pretty big news here in the LA area for a while. I even heard people debating the Tookie saga at the gym this morning. While perusing various news sources about the story I came across this interesting editorial.
 
It dosent take much to fool sufficiently large portions of the population. There is a good reason you need 100% of the Jury vote to get a conviction and not just a majority, in the USA anyway.
 
Ed
Umm, law is a popularity contest? It really dosen't work that way.
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Sure it does. Your position is that it shouldn't. I'm asking you to explain why you hold that position.
 
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