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Animals and People

evildave

Unregistered
E
The general case I'd like to present is this:

Certain animals, as adopted, and become dependent on humans are 'needy', and people take care of them. They are integrated into our lives.

Other animals should be simply left to their own devices in their own habitats wherever possible, to live without human interference. I wholeheartedly feel this is the case.

No matter how cute it is, it's not natural for a squirrel to accept treats from humans, or for other animals to associate humans as handy vending devices. Dangerous to both, in fact.

Civilized people have mellowed out a WHOLE LOT over the last centuries. This has good aspects and bad. On the plus side (for animals), seeing a human does not automatically mean you die and get eaten. On the minus side, animals have begun to adapt to civilization, and use it as a habitat.

This is a bit of a problem as these animals are poorly integrated into human cities and suburbs from the human perspective, where they do damage, carry disease, and beat up people's pets. But where else do they really have to live? The urban sprawl continues, and the animals that were already here find themselves surrounded by an alien human habitat, and too little left of their own habitat to survive. Some of them adapt, and spread into human habitat. Some of them do very well. Rats have loved humans for as long as there has been civilization.

Can human development adapt to better coexist with our little furry, feathered and scaled 'citizens'?

What about the bigger ones? Deer REALLY like people. And gardens. Mostly the gardens.

Considering that attempting to eradicate animals has never really succeeded, is there a way that 'wildlife' can be integrated? Or will they always be 'pests' that need to be 'controlled' (AKA exterminated)?
 
evildave said:
The general case I'd like to present is this:

Certain animals, as adopted, and become dependent on humans are 'needy', and people take care of them. They are integrated into our lives.
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This is true. It is also something people should remember when dumping their dog or cat by the side of the road because it has become 'superflous to requirements' or leaving their animals who once lived in the house (while they were still cute) out in harsh elements with the reasoning that 'They're just animals, it doesn't bother them!'

The fact is that these animals have not got the proper coats or skills to survive in the elements any more! Unless whelped from a 'working strain' or other such hardy type dogs and cats are very dependant on the warmth of the house, and people to feed them.
Because of their diets and the way they have been housed, they no longer have the skills (or coats) to fend for themselves!


Other animals should be simply left to their own devices in their own habitats wherever possible, to live without human interference. I wholeheartedly feel this is the case.
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I totally agree with that, I wish people would leave wild animals alone. Bears, cougars (how can you tell i'm from canada), raccoons, squirrels, the list goes on.
They become a danger to people, other animals and themselves.
You aren't helping them by feeding them - You're actually harming them!
It amazes me how many times people can be told this and yet they still do it!
as you said below:
No matter how cute it is, it's not natural for a squirrel to accept treats from humans, or for other animals to associate humans as handy vending devices. Dangerous to both, in fact.

Civilized people have mellowed out a WHOLE LOT over the last centuries. This has good aspects and bad. On the plus side (for animals), seeing a human does not automatically mean you die and get eaten. On the minus side, animals have begun to adapt to civilization, and use it as a habitat.

This is a bit of a problem as these animals are poorly integrated into human cities and suburbs from the human perspective, where they do damage, carry disease, and beat up people's pets. But where else do they really have to live? The urban sprawl continues, and the animals that were already here find themselves surrounded by an alien human habitat, and too little left of their own habitat to survive. Some of them adapt, and spread into human habitat. Some of them do very well. Rats have loved humans for as long as there has been civilization.

Can human development adapt to better coexist with our little furry, feathered and scaled 'citizens'?
Click to expand...

I absolutely think so. The problem lies in education & willingness, and both are sorely lacking in the general population.
I think a great start would be to curb litter, in gardens on the street, everywhere!
Squirrels, rats, possums and the like are looking for warmth and food. If they find both in your house/yard then they will come!
If there is no garbage or food supply for them, the will not. If they do come they will leave when they realise there's nothing there to sustain the family :)
Bird feeders attract squirrels and rats - I know people like to watch birds, but if you want to watch birds you can go to the park... If you have a bird feeder then you are inviting birds and any other little furry who's willing to eat bird food.
Birds don't starve to death unless they have been conditioned not to follow their natural instincts and forage.
You aren't helping the birds if you're feeding them, it's not necessary!
What about the bigger ones? Deer REALLY like people. And gardens. Mostly the gardens.
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I figure, if you move to an area that is heavily populated with deer then you should be prepared to deal with them on your lawn. As you mentioned, space is becoming limited and they have as much right to be there as we do (if not more - they were there first!)
Considering that attempting to eradicate animals has never really succeeded, is there a way that 'wildlife' can be integrated? Or will they always be 'pests' that need to be 'controlled' (AKA exterminated)?
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I don't understand why you say that attempts at eradicating animals have failed...
I am aware that culling, trapping and hunting go on on a regular basis, but I can't agree that the entire world sees wildlife as pests that need to be exterminated.

I have a huge problem with the way wildlife and pets are treated in the world today, but I'm not sure I follow your last statement.

Toni
 
It never ceases to amaze me how people have no clue about wild animals, and think they're cute and cuddly, and not realize how dangerous they are. In Banff Nat'l Park, near where I live, you always hear about tourists and their run ins with bear or elk.
 
On the integration thing, I see indutrial farming as a huge destroyer of habitat. Here in the corn belt everybody acts like some crime is being committed if god forbid someone builds a house or golf course on 'farm land'. They forget that the real crime was commited when all the woodlots and fence rows were torn down to grow corn and beans, and that more crimes were commited when the pastures and bottom lands were all converted in fields. Then there is the poor water shed, every small creek turned into a greenway for drainage, except now they are just putting drain tile in them all. No streams, no creeks, just ditches, bigger ditches and huge ditches that used to be rivers. (Okay so my county is exceptional because it is soooo flat and the land is very fertile.)
But there is very little cover for any sort of wildlife except for that which has a high tolerance for urban and industrial farming. The second part of integration is to make it so it doesn't kill wildlife and humans. A very good example, any sort of brush or cover in the middle area of the interstate, it just provides this major invitation for Bambi to stroll across the highway and kill you and Bambi. In fact any sort of shrubbery near the highway is an invitation to doom.
On the plus side, most farmers have stopped spraying the roadsides with herbecides and so eventualy a more natural biota may grow up.

I feel very sorry for abandoned animals, most people would not abandon thier youngest child but they ditch Fluffy in some wilderness. I have a friend that lives near a large resort area in Illinois and he adopts a lot of 'strays'.

There are some animals that just make piss poor pets, I remember when getting a boa was all the rage twenty years ago, they are beautiful, and I love snakes, but that is like having a TIGER in the house! A slow tiger that will suffocate you.


Ramble, ramble, ramble.
 
Down here the tourists love to pose and have their pictures taken with the big green dogs...always room for more tourists!:D
 
The problem with urban 'eradication' programs is that the target population is heavily impacted for a while, but it will usually come back.

There are always stronger points and weaker points of the eradication effort. The "pest" population typically ends up stabilizing at the weaker points, outside the most heavily "controlled" areas, and once the big (and expensive) drive to eradicate STOPS or even slows down in the places that are apparently "clear", the population moves right back in again.

Certainly great "successes" in eradication have occurred in the past. The buffalo, wolves, California grizly bears, all gone. The big animals seem to be the easiest to wipe out. Once enough fences and roads are in an area to make it a little maze-like, even deer will generally vanish.

Most of the animals that are finding their way into cities are small. Mice and rats have always been around. Squirrels wherever there are trees. Opossums and racoons are a growing population in Los Angeles suburbs, for instance. Especially anywhere within a few miles of hillsides that can't... quite... be built on. Birds, well, they go without saying. Any downtown without great herds of pigeons is hardly a downtown.

Squirrels are a little too 'cute'. They socialize. They will accept things from people's hands. Bad news. They carry rabies and plague (literally the 'bubonic' variety) just like rats.

Opossums are pretty cool, really. They don't generally carry rabies. They eat bugs and little rodents (pretty much anything, really), and they want the same things as rodents. They just aren't "cute". Getting people to acquire a tolerance for having opossums around might actually be beneficial to controlling rodent populations by displacing them with marsupials.

Racoons, well they're "monstrous". They're aggressive, and will even pick fights with dogs. They'll chase cats far enough that they can't find their way home. They travel in packs, and they're too smart for their own good. They will walk right into a house through a cat door, and look at you like "What are YOU doing up at this hour?" when you catch them at it. They just LOVE those little goldfish ponds. Both for fish, and for washing food. They will take your pet's food away from them.

Racoons are horrendously destructive, but honestly, so are my cats (What I've learned: My cats stay inside, and they live a long, long time destroying the house; my cats go outside, they 'disappear'.)

I don't mind racoons because I don't really have anything in the yard they want, except one peach tree that gets decimated every year by a huge pack of them.
 
The interesting phenomena here in central illinois is that the red fox and grey fox are moving into urban and semi-urban areas, they are undervery heavy pressure from the coyote/red wolf that now dominate most of the rural areas. the coyotes have also done in the feral dog population.

We also seem to have a huge number of raptors working the roads and in urban areas.

PS A great blue heron will just destroy goldfish ponds.
 
Heheh..

I remember a few years ago when coyotes moved into my dad's neighborhood (big park bit about a block away). All of the sudden, all these 'missing' posters with cute fluffy cats (and in one case, a yorkie), went up around the neighborhood.

Coyotes looked pretty well fed to me...
 
All of a sudden the turkey vulture population has shot WAY up here. They've decided that my neighborhood is a GREAT spot to hang out. These birds are pretty nifty, actually.

As far as the deer and landscaping goes, I have a simple rule: if I plant it, and it gets eaten, or dies, I don't replace it. It works for me. They wander across my yard all the time. Occasionally they chew on a manzanita or scrub oak. When I "prune" these trees, it's with a chainsaw, anyway.

There used to be a lot of rabbits around. Not anymore. I don't know whether the local population was inadvertently imported, then wiped out, or whether it simply crashed. There used to be a lot, now there haven't been any in years.

I have been getting some interesting effects in the yard lately. The racoons are always around at night. The snap-on cover to my compost heap was removed, and had unusually big ashy footprints on it, with long-ish claws (I dump the wood stove ashes in it, too). It's no simple matter to pry the cover off the compost heap. Either I have the world's biggest, strongest racoons, or a small bear has taken to roaming the area. That'll teach me to toss in moldy bread, anyway.

I have mixed feelings about the blue jays. They chase the woodpeckers away, but I also suspect that they're the ones who are inserting acorns under my shingles... which reminds me I should climb up and clean out the shingles and glue the edges down on the OTHER side of the house, now....
 
We need to start being nasty to these animals. Take the garden hose to the deer. Keep a slingshot and flashlight for the racoons. Throw rocks at squirrels. Nothing that will do damage, but will scare the crap outta them and start to teach them to be afraid of people again. Killing them doesn't help as they don't learn that way and don't pass on the lessons to their offspring.

Be mean to an animal today ;)
 
When I was growing up in Arizona, my brother and I would catch lizards, horned toads and non-poisonous snakes and keep them as pets. My dad would carry a loaded gun in the desert to shoot the diamondback rattlesnakes we came across. As "civilization" spread through our town, we saw fewer lizards and snakes. It was kinda sad in a way.
 
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