An income tax conspiracy?

StoneWT

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Conspiracy theorist Mike Rivero apparently doesn't read the articles he links to on his website.

From his website (Oct.1, 2006):

Another hit piece on "Freedom to Fascism"

Posted Oct 1, 2006 08:42 AM PST
Category: MAINSTREAM MEDIA


... and if you compare this with the other media hit pieces, it is obvious they are working from the same lists of talking points.

...........................

From the article:

Finally, Russo gets a meeting with a former IRS commissioner who helped write the tax code. Sheldon Cohen cites the 16th Amendment.

Russo trots out a favorite quote from a 1916 Supreme Court decision that said the amendment “conferred no new power of taxation” on Congress.

Never in the movie do Russo or his experts complete the court’s sentence. It acknowledges “the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the beginning.”

............................

The next link:

Here come the attacks on "From Freedom to Fascism"

Posted Oct 1, 2006 08:40 AM PST
Category: MAINSTREAM MEDIA


As predicted, the ever-obedient-to-authority MSM is going to try to keep Americans from seeing this movie.

I urge everyone to write Scott Moore's boss and demand that Moore support his next to last paragraph by PROVING that the 16th Amendment was actually ratified by the necessary number of states, because the Federal Government has been unable to do so for the last ten years. Remind Scott's boss that the US Supreme Court, in Stanton Versus Baltic Mining, ruled that the 16th Amendment did NOT actually give the Federal Government any new taxing authority. Remind Scott that endlessly repeating that the 16th Amendment makes the income tax legal does not make it so.

Then cancel your subscription to the Portland Mercury, if you happen to actually have one (it is a teensy little paper with just a tiny fraction of the readers of this web site.

One final point. Tax records are private. It is a felony to leak information from tax records to anyone. So how did Scott get the info on Aaron's tax liens? (And given the large number of TV Commercials for tax "fixers", is it all that unusual for anyone to have tax problems?)

Huh?


"Remind Scott's boss that the US Supreme Court, in Stanton Versus Baltic Mining, ruled that the 16th Amendment did NOT actually give the Federal Government any new taxing authority."

What was that other quote?

Finally, Russo gets a meeting with a former IRS commissioner who helped write the tax code. Sheldon Cohen cites the 16th Amendment.
Russo trots out a favorite quote from a 1916 Supreme Court decision that said the amendment “conferred no new power of taxation” on Congress.

Never in the movie do Russo or his experts complete the court’s sentence. It acknowledges “the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the beginning.”

:confused:
 
I am confused by this line of thought (that goes into thinking you shouldnt pay tax).

I paid a tonne in income tax last year, but even though i did so reluctantly, it was never because I thought we shouldnt pay it. I know the argument they often try to make, which is that the money we pay, only get tacked on to paying off the debt (same here in Canada I am sure), but if that is where the money goes, than doesnt that free up other money to pay for single mothers, and for the homeless, and for other needed social programs.

I mean where to people get off thinking they deserve to make money, but not pay for the things in their country that make it a first world nation.

It really annoys me...alot.

TAM:mad:
 
TAM, what I find most interesting about the film (I've watched it) so they recite court cases, including an interview with a juror, who didn't find the person not paying their income tax guilty because the judge/IRS didn't show the law.

Which concerns me. This isn't some pissed off guys with signs walking on sidewalks; it has been enforced in courts!
 
I know, I watched Russos video as well. If there is such a loop hole, or law missing, than it ought to be created and passed, because I think, deep down, if you realize what the taxation system is all about, it is only fair that we pay. Remember paying taxes if you are ever unfortunate enough to get sick in Canada.

TAM
 
MarkyX said:
TAM, what I find most interesting about the film (I've watched it) so they recite court cases, including an interview with a juror, who didn't find the person not paying their income tax guilty because the judge/IRS didn't show the law.

Which concerns me. This isn't some pissed off guys with signs walking on sidewalks; it has been enforced in courts!
Click to expand...

Check the actual quotes. They frequently quote judges repeating the defendant's arguments -- which they then find against. oops.

Also several people have gotten out of paying PENALTIES because of jury trials but still have to pay the ACTUAL TAXES they owe. The argument they frequently use to get out of penalties is "I'm was too dumb to know I was supposed to pay taxes."

The film is the ultimate in cherry picking data.
 
They use the idiot defense. No one has actually won a case saying they don't owe income tax. As kevin noted, they prove themselves to be so stupid that they get off of the penalty.

I was in Austin for the screening of the film earlier this year. Russo's belief may be linked to his owing $2,000,000 to the IRS.
 
The thing that libertarians refuse to understand is that if government didn't exist, we would have to invent it.

Imagine going house to house: "Hi. We're trying to raise money to run our jail. Would you like to donate?" Most people, understanding that we need jails in order to live in safety, would probably donate something. Then they'd get mad at the people who choose not to. Those people get a jail but don't pay for it, free riding on the efforts of others. So, they get up a posse and go down to the libertarian free rider's house and, threatening violence, take the money from him by force.

The rest of the neighborhood is so impressed with the posse that they ask them to stay together permanently, wear matching uniforms and write speeding tickets.

Government exists for no more sinister reason than because the people want it to.
 
StoneWT said:
They use the idiot defense. No one has actually won a case saying they don't owe income tax. As kevin noted, they prove themselves to be so stupid that they get off of the penalty.

I was in Austin for the screening of the film earlier this year. Russo's belief may be linked to his owing $2,000,000 to the IRS.
Click to expand...

Alright, now you got me interested.

Proof of this "idiot defense" ?
 
MarkyX said:
Alright, now you got me interested.

Proof of this "idiot defense" ?
Click to expand...

basically it comes down to the criminal laws saying the violation was "willful." If you claim you were too dumb to know it was against the law then you can get off for the criminal charges, but still owe the tax.

I believe Vernice Kuglin is the most famous recent case but Lloyd Long was the first to try this defense. Both have lost their civil cases. Both were represented by Larry Becraft who has a copy of the Long case on his website.

http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/LongLloyd1.htm

Here's an interview with Becraft and Kuglin. Watch them dance around the "you still owe taxes" question.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,94630,00.html

I don't have time at the moment to dig up their losses on the civil cases (hard to wade through the anti-tax sites that ignore it.) I'll see if I can find it later.
 
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