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Allegations of Fraud in 2020 US Election

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Meadmaker

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Meadmaker
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I think we should have a thread specifically about voter fraud, or election fraud in general, in the recently completed 2020 election.

One of the benefits of the JREF, and we continue that legacy, was the way it critically examined claims and debunked false ones. The important part was not merely the debunking, but also educating the people reading about it in the way that false claims were made, spread, and ultimately debunked. In some cases, that did not mean a complete and total debunking. Some of the most effective nonsense is spread by mixing it in with a kernel of truth.

So, I think we should have a dedicated thread for allegations of vote fraud where we can cite examples, and present evidence that shows whether it did or did not happen, and also explore sources and examine ways in which the allegations are spread. This can also serve as a resource for people to find information for off-forum discussions and interests.

Some of this is happening in the general election thread, but that topic is much broader, and is easily diverted every time a new Trump tweet is reported, so I would like to see it discussed here.

So, please, anyone who thinks there is evidence of vote fraud, let's bring it up and we'll see if we can delve into it.
 
There's a thread about this in the CT forum. Not sure what is more appropriate. There is yet no evidence of these claims and it smacks of your typical CT, but it does have an explicitly political axis which may make it more appropriate for this subforum.

Barring any credible evidence of significant vote fraud, it seems more appropriate to store this CT with all the other garbage in the CT subforum.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347781
 
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Could I suggest that we start by addressing the following post?

Skeptic Tank said:
Michigan

  • A city worker in Detroit claims he and fellow employees were told to back date ballots that came in too late. (Solomon)

  • Antrim county was initially reported as going to Biden. This was so implausible that votes were recounted, and the county went to Trump. The initial miscount was due to "human error."

  • Democrat absentee votes in Oakland county were counted twice. Once corrected, the result of the local election flipped for the Republican.

  • Over 14,000 dead people registered / voted

Pennsylvania

  • Election observers were kept 30 feet from the actual vote counting, meaning they could not see the ballots

  • Statistically impossible voter turnout, and record number of people over 90 years old registering to vote

  • Illegally backdated votes that came in too late

Wisconsin

  • Voter turnout higher than number of registered voters in some areas

  • Election officials tracked down witness addresses for absentee ballots to validate votes, a policy that may be illegal.

  • After the pause in reporting, vote shares shifted in favor of democrats within city wards, meaning this was not due to more democratic areas reporting later, and this was truer the more behind the democrats were in each ward, contrary to what an explanation based on late mail-in voters would predict.

  • Only the state legislature can change election procedures, but election officials allowed potentially over 100,000 voters to bypass ID requirements by claiming that COVID prevented them from leaving home.

Arizona

  • Based on sworn testimony, it is alleged that ballots in Maricopa county featuring "over-voting" were invalidated rather than fixed. (Singman)

Georgia

  • Illegal ballot harvesting

And then there are things like this:

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/oDfWFqc.png[/qimg]

And other things I'm seeing allegations about which I haven't included here.

So when I say I've seen evidence that leads me to believe careful recounts and audits are in order, I'm not literally saying like "oh a whistleblower showed up at my house and we sat down and looked at a couple hundred thousand ballots together and they looked fishy to me" - obviously. I'm saying I am seeing allegations (and not seeing convincing refutations of most of them) that, if proven true, are quite serious and these issues to me seem to obviously necessitate an investigation. I don't think that's a huge claim to make.
Click to expand...

There's a nice solid list of allegations to get stuck into there.

Dave
 
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The Wisconsin "vote turnout" irregularity is debunked, it was using registration data from the 2018 election. The turnout wasn't unusually high in the state when you use 2020 eligible voter numbers.

It wasn't even the record. 2004 had slightly higher turnout.
 
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You have to understand that this is a new kind of conspiracy theory, one unique to our new, wonderful Post-Fact world.

Because the goal is not to actually convince anyone that the election was rigged. It's to just get the idea out there because since there's no intellectual or argumentative standards anymore and everything is "just like, you're opinion man" that's all it takes.
 
Given that no state election commission has reported significant voting problems, it is up to the Trump legal team to convince a Judge.
So far, they have gotten nowhere.
 
How about we don't lend credence to these allegations by debunking them? They are **** allegations, and we know this because Trump gave the game away way in advance.
 
uke2se said:
How about we don't lend credence to these allegations by debunking them? They are **** allegations, and we know this because Trump gave the game away way in advance.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's a dog's breakfast of nonsense that even the right isn't taking too seriously.

Unless it's something the Trump campaign is willing to try to argue in court, dismissing these claims outright seems wise.

It's much more desperation than any real basis. The example of the Wisconsin "turnout irregularity" seems to have sprouted from a single meme that went viral.

The mad Gish gallop of meritless claims says a lot about the mindset of the CHUDs though. They are desperately grasping for straws. They hold onto a glimmer of hope for these meritless lawsuits, but I imagine this desperation will turn to destructive rage once it becomes clear to them Trump has no recourse to his loss.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
Unless it's something the Trump campaign is willing to try to argue in court, dismissing these claims outright seems wise.
Click to expand...

Rudy already said they intend to do just that, just outside of Four Seasons Total Landscaping. Guess we'll see how that goes.

 
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When someone offers some evidence to back up these claims then consider them.
 
I'll start with the Antrim County claim.

Here's a link that discusses it:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/po...ation-michigan-vote-antrim-county/6209693002/


Basically, when they ran the votes through the tabulators, they came up odd, and so the county got on the phone with the vendor of the tabulators, people looked into it, got the right software in place, and reran the numbers.

This isn't evidence of vote fraud at all. It's evidence that people are paying attention and when they see an irregularity, they check it and fix it. The system worked.

What it does suggest is that our voting systems can be improved, and mistakes are possible. Fortunately, we have good people running these operations looking out for these mistakes, and correcting them as fast as possible.
 
Election 2020: A look at Trump campaign election lawsuits and where they stand

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/election-2020-trump-campaign-election-lawsuits-stand/story?id=74041748
here's a source on the several lawsuits the Trump campaign has already tried, and their status.

Some of them have already been dismissed.

Seems a common trend in several dismissed lawsuits that the Trump campaign is unhappy that their poll observers can't observe exactly how they please, and judges not granting their motions to compel specific requests.

There seemed to be some maneuvering to see that late arriving mail ballots be rejected or otherwise separated, but Biden's win in these states with on time ballots seems to have largely mooted this.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
There's a thread about this in the CT forum. Not sure what is more appropriate. There is yet no evidence of these claims and it smacks of your typical CT, but it does have an explicitly political axis which may make it more appropriate for this subforum.

Barring any credible evidence of significant vote fraud, it seems more appropriate to store this CT with all the other garbage in the CT subforum.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347781
Click to expand...

Ok. I hadn't noticed it. I'll let the mods decide where is most appropriate, if they want to merge this one.

I tend to think it ought to be in politics, but I don't have strong feelings on the subject. (I thought about posting it to CTs myself, but decided politics was more appropriate, at least for now, just because this topic is a bit more "mainstream" than typical CT fare.)
 
Former Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich told Newsmax TV that election fraud runs deep and is widespread in large Democrat-controlled cities.

“I don't think it's just confined to Philadelphia,” he said, adding his "instincts" tell him election fraud is taking place in other cities like Atlanta, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Las Vegas.

“Coming out of the Democratic Chicago political establishment I know how they operate,” he said, pointing out Democrats control the political apparatus that counts the votes, the polling places, and the people who count the votes. “It’s a time-honored tradition" he said of Democratic election fraud.

He claimed that Democrat-led polling places stop counting votes when their candidate is behind and in the middle of the night “the stealing starts.”

“We’ve seen that in big numbers, in unprecedented numbers in this election,” he said, noting cities are getting away with conducting widespread fraud because the “corrupt mainstream media” isn’t “interested in protecting our Constitution.”

“They just want to beat Donald Trump at all costs,” he said, adding that Democrats aren’t just stealing the election from the president, but they are stealing it from the American people.
Click to expand...
 
Now, about those back dated ballots in Detroit. here's a story on that one:

https://justthenews.com/politics-po...whistle-claims-ballots-were-ordered-backdated

Summary: The FBI is looking into it.


What that tells me is that allegations of voter fraud are taken very seriously, and it would be very hard to get away with actual fraud. Allegations like this should be investigated, and they are, by dedicated people who want to squash fraud like a bug before it has a chance to spread.

We will see what comes of this story.
 
Well, I mean if his "instincts" tell him, then I guess all we need now is someone's Spidey Sense to tingle, and the game is over.
 
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