Morwen
Reality junkie
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I read something about this in Science Express a while back. They have called these regions "ultraconserved elements", and they are very intriguing, but not because of aliens. The article is brief and I miss a matherials and methods section, but in Science Express they do not put these. However, it seems perfectly sound and nothing out of the ordinary for the type of publication. No aliens anywhere.
It's very interesting, actually: finding ultraconserved sequences in non-coding, "junk" DNA makes a nice story, but apart from that it's yet another clue about the utility of junk DNA and the possibility of regulatory mechanisms that are not so apparent but are still crucial.
A couple of other groups have reported similar results apart from Bejerano (the author of the Science Express article), so I think the ultraconserved elements are well on their way in the usual science road of replicability.
I think that Professor Davies was speaking somewhat loosely, highlighting the extreme in order to bring attention to the discovery. I want to be good, you see.
Me, if I were an alien, I'd rather make some kind of big, unequivocal show a la John Rennie instead of hiding things without obvious functions in the darkest corners of a genome. But that's just me, I guess.
It's very interesting, actually: finding ultraconserved sequences in non-coding, "junk" DNA makes a nice story, but apart from that it's yet another clue about the utility of junk DNA and the possibility of regulatory mechanisms that are not so apparent but are still crucial.
A couple of other groups have reported similar results apart from Bejerano (the author of the Science Express article), so I think the ultraconserved elements are well on their way in the usual science road of replicability.
I think that Professor Davies was speaking somewhat loosely, highlighting the extreme in order to bring attention to the discovery. I want to be good, you see.
Me, if I were an alien, I'd rather make some kind of big, unequivocal show a la John Rennie instead of hiding things without obvious functions in the darkest corners of a genome. But that's just me, I guess.
Reminds me of that Star Trek TNG episode where they find a message from a precursor race in the DNA of the major races in the ST universe. Neat way to explain all the "guys with funny foreheads" factor in the show.
In other words, sounds like Sci-Fi to me.
Now if they actually found a message...
In other words, sounds like Sci-Fi to me.
Now if they actually found a message...
Re: Re: Alien messages in our DNA
It's not so much the idea of there being junk DNA that interests me, it's really more the idea that an alien race used it as a greeting card.
I got the feeling from the article that this was going to turn into a Bible code sort of thing, where people are finding patterns to prove whatever they want.
Morwen, thanks for the response . . . why do they call them "ultraconserved elements?"
Anders said:
It's not so much the idea of there being junk DNA that interests me, it's really more the idea that an alien race used it as a greeting card.
I got the feeling from the article that this was going to turn into a Bible code sort of thing, where people are finding patterns to prove whatever they want.
Morwen, thanks for the response . . . why do they call them "ultraconserved elements?"
Re: Re: Re: Re: Alien messages in our DNA
But than again, perhaps not the same junk DNA...makes you think....NOT!
And to the small worm C. elegans which have about 70% of the genes in common with humans. C. Elegans always consists of 759 cells, not counting germ cells. not 800 or 760, always 759. Amazing, isn't it!mark tidwell said:
But than again, perhaps not the same junk DNA...makes you think....NOT!
Re: Re: Re: Alien messages in our DNA
But, to be frank, it’s just a waste of time. Even if it were a message in the junk DNA, we wouldn’t know the grammar, the syntax, the meaning used by an alien, we would be stuck!
ultraconserved elements is most probably sekvenses in the DNA that is very old, and they can show that or at least have some theories about it. For example, some of the proteins involved in DNA replication, RNA transkription, etc are ultraconserved, they are the same in all eucaryotes(non bakteria)
I think there also are some proteins that are the same in both procaryotes(bakteria) and eucaryotes.
[edited for spelling]
I was thinking how they would look for these messages in the DNA. DNA is encoded in, you all know this, G, C, A and T. Too few to make any comprehendible words, right. But than maybe its written according to the RNA to Protein encoding. That is, three DNA nucleotides makes one protein, like A, C, L, etc, 20 all in all. That could make some meaningful words.rebecca said:
But, to be frank, it’s just a waste of time. Even if it were a message in the junk DNA, we wouldn’t know the grammar, the syntax, the meaning used by an alien, we would be stuck!
ultraconserved elements is most probably sekvenses in the DNA that is very old, and they can show that or at least have some theories about it. For example, some of the proteins involved in DNA replication, RNA transkription, etc are ultraconserved, they are the same in all eucaryotes(non bakteria)
I think there also are some proteins that are the same in both procaryotes(bakteria) and eucaryotes.
[edited for spelling]
Ok, now I see it. They want to look for patterns, that’s it, ok. Well, if they find for instance a sequence which is as long as two primes multiplied, and it had distinct start sequences and stop sequences. Than I might be a little bit interested.
But I wouldn’t hold my breath.
But I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Morwen
Reality junkie
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Re: Re: Re: Alien messages in our DNA
I guess just to be cool. There are many portions of the genome that are highly conserved throughout organisms quite far away evolutionarily (histones and the like). This is normally because those portions codify for genes that are essential for the survival of the cell, and therefore they are under a very strong selective pressure not to change since the common ancestor.
But what you do not expect to find is conserved sequences in portions of the genome that don't have a direct physiological role and are not, therefore, subject to selective pressure (at least in principle). Since they did, and since these sequences are so very similar to one another in a part of the genome where you don't expect to find much conservation anyway, I guess they got impressed and called them "ultraconserved".
Strictly speaking, there are many "ultraconserved elements" in the genome. But they have not been called so. So, I'm guessing that when this group found those sequences, they named them based on their most unexpected and striking characteristic, i.e., their high level of identity with other sequences from species relatively far away in the evolutionary tree.
rebecca said:
I guess just to be cool. There are many portions of the genome that are highly conserved throughout organisms quite far away evolutionarily (histones and the like). This is normally because those portions codify for genes that are essential for the survival of the cell, and therefore they are under a very strong selective pressure not to change since the common ancestor.
But what you do not expect to find is conserved sequences in portions of the genome that don't have a direct physiological role and are not, therefore, subject to selective pressure (at least in principle). Since they did, and since these sequences are so very similar to one another in a part of the genome where you don't expect to find much conservation anyway, I guess they got impressed and called them "ultraconserved".
Strictly speaking, there are many "ultraconserved elements" in the genome. But they have not been called so. So, I'm guessing that when this group found those sequences, they named them based on their most unexpected and striking characteristic, i.e., their high level of identity with other sequences from species relatively far away in the evolutionary tree.
Johnny Pneumatic
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If aliens really wanted to leave us a message they should have put something on the moon, near Tyco.
Chad Noles
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TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
At last, a message from the aliens! After eons of trying to decipher their alien wisdom, we now know that they reached out across limitless time and space to tell us "GAT A CAT! TAG AT DAD!"
We'll get right on it.
Damn, there's no "D". Never mind, aliens. We'll stick to the cats.
We'll get right on it.
Damn, there's no "D". Never mind, aliens. We'll stick to the cats.
Junk DNA is not necessarily "junk" just because it is not transscribed into proteins. A recent issue of Scientific American had a main story about how scientists are finding more and more functions for various sequences of the junk DNA. My issue has gone missing so I cannot give you the exact reference.
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Alien messages in our DNA
Binary isn't really universal--before you translate it you have to know what to translate it to, the start and end points for each piece of data, and what data type it is. Basically, you have to have a previously agreed-upon standard of meanings to interpret a binary message. 010101--is it a number? A letter? If it's a letter, we have to know what that letter is, and share an alphabet and language. It can't even convey numbers universally, because you'd have to know ahead of time whether it's a positive or negative number. And once you get the numbers, what then? Translate them into words? Math is nice, but it can't really communicate anything besides math.
The aliens would better spend their time on making more crop circles.
gnome said:
Binary isn't really universal--before you translate it you have to know what to translate it to, the start and end points for each piece of data, and what data type it is. Basically, you have to have a previously agreed-upon standard of meanings to interpret a binary message. 010101--is it a number? A letter? If it's a letter, we have to know what that letter is, and share an alphabet and language. It can't even convey numbers universally, because you'd have to know ahead of time whether it's a positive or negative number. And once you get the numbers, what then? Translate them into words? Math is nice, but it can't really communicate anything besides math.
The aliens would better spend their time on making more crop circles.
gnome
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Alien messages in our DNA
Well, to borrow a page from Carl Sagan's "Contact", if the number of binary digits were the product of two prime numbers, it would lend itself to a two-dimensional, black & white image in a grid. If the two primes were high enough, the resolution could be pretty good, sort of like a newspaper image.
I say two primes because then there's only one way to make the grid.
In his book such a message discovered in the digits of certain universal constants was interpreted as a message from the universe's creator.
I don't know if he actually believes in such, but it's a good description of the sort of evidence it would take to convince him.
TragicMonkey said:
Well, to borrow a page from Carl Sagan's "Contact", if the number of binary digits were the product of two prime numbers, it would lend itself to a two-dimensional, black & white image in a grid. If the two primes were high enough, the resolution could be pretty good, sort of like a newspaper image.
I say two primes because then there's only one way to make the grid.
In his book such a message discovered in the digits of certain universal constants was interpreted as a message from the universe's creator.
I don't know if he actually believes in such, but it's a good description of the sort of evidence it would take to convince him.