Al Gore's Ethanol Epiphany

[Puppycow]

Al Gore's Ethanol Epiphany

Welcome to the college of converts, Mr. Vice President. "It is not a good policy to have these massive subsidies for first-generation ethanol," Al Gore told a gathering of clean energy financiers in Greece this week. The benefits of ethanol are "trivial," he added, but "It's hard once such a program is put in place to deal with the lobbies that keep it going."

No kidding, and Mr. Gore said he knows from experience: "One of the reasons I made that mistake is that I paid particular attention to the farmers in my home state of Tennessee, and I had a certain fondness for the farmers in the state of Iowa because I was about to run for President."

Better late than never I suppose.

The greens have slowly turned against corn ethanol, thanks to the growing scientific evidence that biofuels increase carbon emissions more than fossil fuels do.

 

[BenBurch]

I have been telling people this for about 15 years... It works great when you have a surplus that you have no other use for. But that is not the basis for a fuel industry in a world where the number of mouths wanting corn in increasing exponentially.

 

[Puppycow]

An even more egregious example is palm oil.

 

[daenku32]

The ethanol industry has been selling the switch grass or whatnot as the next evolutionary step.

Of course none of that has materialized. The "industry friendly" politicians didn't want to push them on it.

 

[Eddie Dane]

Isn't this just common knowledge?

Kinda fair of him to admit he promoted it to get votes from farmers.

Great.

 

[Just thinking]

Why the hell are still pushing it? ... and diluting gasoline with it?

 

[ServiceSoon]

Why the hell are still pushing it? ... and diluting gasoline with it?

Because I can make 20% more torque in my car than std gasoline?

 

[Region Rat]

Because I can make 20% more torque in my car than std gasoline?

Sure, but do you need it? The tradeoff is worse gas mileage.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Every time I see the thread title, I picture Al Gore drinking a bunch of ethanol then running amok, yelling about things. That sort of epiphany is more common than the ecclesiastical kind. Funnier to watch also. Does he still have that awful beard? I don't think any former vice presidents managed to look homeless until he grew that.

 

[carlitos]

I'm glad to read this. Using food for fuel can't be a good idea.

 

[Tricky]

I'm glad to read this. Using food for fuel can't be a good idea.

Except liver. If you could turn all the liver in the store to fuel, I'd be in favor of that.

 

[tyr_13]

I thought food was fuel.


Wait, people were putting it in their cars instead of their stomach? Oh. I see the problem.

 

[Newtons Bit]

I thought food was fuel.


Wait, people were putting it in their cars instead of their stomach? Oh. I see the problem.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I have been telling people this for about 15 years... It works great when you have a surplus that you have no other use for. But that is not the basis for a fuel industry in a world where the number of mouths wanting corn in increasing exponentially.

Or to put it another way:

"Using food to run cars is dumb" - Charles T. Munger

 

[Just thinking]

Because I can make 20% more torque in my car than std gasoline?

Sure, but do you need it? The tradeoff is worse gas mileage.

Evidence? Diluted gasoline (10% alcohol/ethanol) has less energy per volume. Yes, it yields higher octane, but that's not more energy.

 

[BenBurch]

Evidence? Diluted gasoline (10% alcohol/ethanol) has less energy per volume. Yes, it yields higher octane, but that's not more energy.

Octane is a rating of ignition properties. The higher the octane, the lower the tendency to "knock."

 

[Just thinking]

Octane is a rating of ignition properties. The higher the octane, the lower the tendency to "knock."

Correct ... but how does that raise torque over using straight gasoline? (Given of course that the engine/gasoline octane are properly set-up and metered to eliminate knocking.)

 

[Almo]

Um... doesn't corn take tons of fossil fuel (generating fertilizer and farm machinery) to harvest?

 

[BenBurch]

Correct ... but how does that raise torque over using straight gasoline? (Given of course that the engine/gasoline octane are properly set-up and metered to eliminate knocking.)

If you are using an octane too low for the engine, you get premature detonation and/or detonation instead of deflagration. By applying power at the wrong time and by applying it suddenly rather than gradually, the engine loses power.

Once you have an octane high enough for your engine, there is no significant further improvement by going to a higher octane.

 

[Just thinking]

If you are using an octane too low for the engine, you get premature detonation and/or detonation instead of deflagration. By applying power at the wrong time and by applying it suddenly rather than gradually, the engine loses power.

Once you have an octane high enough for your engine, there is no significant further improvement by going to a higher octane.

Well, yes ... that's all true. But one can achieve higher octane with pure gasoline also --- say, by using premium 93. And 93 gasoline will have more energy than 93 10% gasohol. So I ask again, how does having 10% ethanol in my gasoline deliver more torque?