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Agenda 21

Cosmic Yak

Philosopher
Cosmic Yak
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
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Breaking the road for the rest.
We don't seem to have an active thread on this, so I thought I'd start one.
The conspiracy theories surrounding the UN's Agenda 21 are quite well-known (for example, here and this random nutter here), but I have been wondering about a couple of things.
Firstly, what is it about Agenda 21, among all the varied activities and policies of the UN, that has got the tinfoil hat brigade so worked up? Is it just because it has the word "Agenda" in the title, or is there something in the wording of the actual policy that has sparked this reaction?

Secondly, what is the UN supposed to gain from this supposed depopulation of the globe? Why would they do this, and why would they publish what they are going to do in advance? Thie idea that governments want to abolish themselves, and/or drastically reduce their power and revenue by killing the majority of their citizens, and that major corporations want to kill off most of their customers, publically to boot, makes absolutely no sense to me. Does anyone have any insights?
In addition, are there any believers on this forum that can furnish evidence that these theories are real?
 
This non-sense clearly belongs to the "scary me" pattern. It will be hard to find any logic in that theory...
 
My guess is that they latched on to the title. "Agenda 21" looks like it ought to mean "Agenda for the 21st century", and their glee at finding a real UN document with such a useful title was enough to get the ball rolling. The actual contents of the document didn't matter in the slightest.

Like I said, just a guess.
 
Zed Too said:
The actual contents of the document didn't matter in the slightest.
Click to expand...



Yeah, this. It's clear from every other case we've ever looked into, in which a CTist claims a particular government plan or report is "proof" that "they" are doing something nefarious, that the people who most believe the CT have never actually read the document in its entirety, or even a significant portion of it.

So people like Alex Jones can find a good-sounding document, wave a copy about on their podcasts, and claim it says anything they want to claim, secure in the knowledge that their audience will almost certainly never read the document themselves, to ind out they've been lied to.
 
A reason I've come across is that TPTB want to depopulate the world so that there will be more land, more resources, etc. for them. The rich elite want to get rid of the poor people overpopulating the planet so that they can have everything for themselves.
 
Zed Too said:
My guess is that they latched on to the title. "Agenda 21" looks like it ought to mean "Agenda for the 21st century", and their glee at finding a real UN document with such a useful title was enough to get the ball rolling. The actual contents of the document didn't matter in the slightest.

Like I said, just a guess.
Click to expand...

That is indeed what the '21' in 'Agenda 21' stands for.
I guess if you've never moved out of your parents' house, the idea of drawing up a plan for the future must seem like a scary prospect, and therefore deeply suspicious.
I have never yet encountered a CT-er who had actually read the document.
 
JesseCuster said:
A reason I've come across is that TPTB want to depopulate the world so that there will be more land, more resources, etc. for them. The rich elite want to get rid of the poor people overpopulating the planet so that they can have everything for themselves.
Click to expand...

Of course, if they do so, the rich will have to do their own cooking, mow their own lawns, mine their own gold and build their own jet planes. Thus instantly transforming themselves into the working classes they just killed off.
Needless to say, economics was never the strong point of conspiracy theorists.

Along with physics, history, archeology, biology, engineering, or in fact almost any branch of human knowledge requiring study and research, qualifications and expertise.
 
The rabid hysteria surrounding this baffles me. I first came across it at University on the late 1980s when it was first being put together, so it isn't new by any means.

Paranoid conspiracy types see phrases like 'there aren't enough resources for all the people', and 'we could really do with cutting down on population growth' and 'maybe it would make sense not to pollute as much and cut back on resource use' as "OMG THEY WANT TO KILL US ALL!!!111!!!"
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Of course, if they do so, the rich will have to do their own cooking, mow their own lawns, mine their own gold and build their own jet planes. Thus instantly transforming themselves into the working classes they just killed off.
Needless to say, economics was never the strong point of conspiracy theorists.

Along with physics, history, archeology, biology, engineering, or in fact almost any branch of human knowledge requiring study and research, qualifications and expertise.
Click to expand...

Except of course that there is a lot of money going into automation, AI, robotics and longetivity research. If robots can do the work and you can live for a very long time why would you want poor people lazing about, ruining the view and stinking the place up?

(I should probably note that I think the CTs around Agenda 21 are bonkers - I'm just throwing out potential answers).
 
Depopulation conspiracy theories started popping up in the 60s when overpopulation and a looming Malthusian catastrophe seemed possible. In that environment where it seemed possible that earth would simply run out of food for the people soon it made sense that maybe the elite where going to take matters into their own hands and sow infertility or genocidal actions to bring the population back down.

Now since then overpopulation hasn't seemed like such a looming catastrophe thanks to agricultural innovation coupled with developed countries going through a demographic transition but the old conspiracy mindset never left. They have clung to it in the face of new realities and facts.
 
Camillus said:
Except of course that there is a lot of money going into automation, AI, robotics and longetivity research. If robots can do the work and you can live for a very long time why would you want poor people lazing about, ruining the view and stinking the place up?

(I should probably note that I think the CTs around Agenda 21 are bonkers - I'm just throwing out potential answers).
Click to expand...

Good point.
However, if we all had all the material comforts we needed, and didn't have to work, then we'd all be effectively rich, and there would be very little to distinguish rich from poor. I remember reading some of the utopian theories of Robert Anton Wilson, arguing for just such a society. There would still, as I see it, be no need to slaughter 5 billion people, in order to achieve this.
Plus the robots would still need maintaining.
 
There is a reasonably good post on it from skeptoid, the opening is worth a laugh... at the conspiracy theorists.

It’s a Friday night in 2021, and you’ve had a long, hard day. Your job of stamping codes on malaria pills bound for developing countries is unsatisfying, but until a position in another section becomes open (and assuming you pass the myriad Fairness Tests for it), it’s where you are. Right now, all you want is to be in your Home Unit, off the clock and enjoying Dinner Paste #7 (real meat flavoring is a weekend treat, after all.) The electric bus drops you off at Building 844 in Downtown Zone G12. You walk in and notice it right away. The light in the bathroom. You left it on. Panic grips you as you run to turn it off. Maybe they didn’t notice. Maybe they don’t know.



Then you hear the knock on the door. They know. Four blue-helmets stand there, armed to the teeth. One of them hands you a slip of onion-skin reading “CITATION 36-H53.1: LEFT BATHROOM LIGHT ON DURING WORK SHIFT.” And without a word, you go with them. There’s no need to pack and no point in protesting. By nightfall, you’ll be farming wind at a Work Camp 100 miles outside of the city, and nobody will say a word about the new code-stamper at the factory on Monday. Because they don’t want to be next. And in the North American Continental Sphere, anyone can be next.
Click to expand...

https://skeptoid.com/blog/2013/03/18/agenda-21-death-by-sustainability/
 
Travis said:
Depopulation conspiracy theories started popping up in the 60s when overpopulation and a looming Malthusian catastrophe seemed possible. In that environment where it seemed possible that earth would simply run out of food for the people soon it made sense that maybe the elite where going to take matters into their own hands and sow infertility or genocidal actions to bring the population back down.

Now since then overpopulation hasn't seemed like such a looming catastrophe thanks to agricultural innovation coupled with developed countries going through a demographic transition but the old conspiracy mindset never left. They have clung to it in the face of new realities and facts.
Click to expand...


I think my favorite theory from that time was Paul Ehrlich's prediction that starvation in the US would leave only about 20 million people alive by the 1990s and that England would simply cease to exist due to food shortages.
 
Firstly, what is it about Agenda 21, among all the varied activities and policies of the UN, that has got the tinfoil hat brigade so worked up? Is it just because it has the word "Agenda" in the title, or is there something in the wording of the actual policy that has sparked this reaction?
Click to expand...

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Agenda_21

RationalWiki said:
In 2012, however, an "exposé" by former Fox News host Glenn Beck seized upon Agenda 21 as an attempt by radical Nazi communist internationalist homosexuals to "put their fangs into our communities and suck all the blood out of it, we will not be able to survive."This began an onslaught of paranoia that has continued ever since, with even such high-level American institutions as the Republican National Committee (RNC), the governing body of one of the two major American parties, officially condemning Agenda 21 as "a comprehensive plan of extreme environmentalism, social engineering, and global political control." The general consensus among a certain segment of the American conservative movement seems to be that socialists and tree-huggers are using Agenda 21 as a template for an insidious contamination of all levels of society. And our precious bodily fluids, no doubt.
Click to expand...

Basically Glenn Beck's fear mongering...

And:

Secondly, what is the UN supposed to gain from this supposed depopulation of the globe? Why would they do this, and why would they publish what they are going to do in advance? Thie idea that governments want to abolish themselves, and/or drastically reduce their power and revenue by killing the majority of their citizens, and that major corporations want to kill off most of their customers, publically to boot, makes absolutely no sense to me. Does anyone have any insights?
In addition, are there any believers on this forum that can furnish evidence that these theories are real?
Click to expand...

I presume this quote would answer your second question?

RationalWiki said:
The flaw with any vigorous opposition to Agenda 21 is that "the U.S. government and no state or local government is legally bound by the United Nations Agenda 21 treaty," as the RNC accurately asserts in their resolution. Accordingly, it makes no sense to demand that it be repudiated: you can argue with it on the merits of what it recommends, but it's silly to savage a set of recommendations for merely daring to exist. It's tantamount to mounting a bombastic attack on the Food and Leisure section of your local paper just because you disagreed with a food critic's opinion of a restaurant: you might want a different columnist or different recommendations or even a different section editor, but attacking the section for its audacity in existing makes you seem like a raving lunatic.
Click to expand...
 
Cosmic Yak said:
We don't seem to have an active thread on this, so I thought I'd start one.
The conspiracy theories surrounding the UN's Agenda 21 are quite well-known, but I have been wondering about a couple of things.
Firstly, what is it about Agenda 21, among all the varied activities and policies of the UN, that has got the tinfoil hat brigade so worked up? Is it just because it has the word "Agenda" in the title, or is there something in the wording of the actual policy that has sparked this reaction?

Secondly, what is the UN supposed to gain from this supposed depopulation of the globe? Why would they do this, and why would they publish what they are going to do in advance? Thie idea that governments want to abolish themselves, and/or drastically reduce their power and revenue by killing the majority of their citizens, and that major corporations want to kill off most of their customers, publically to boot, makes absolutely no sense to me. Does anyone have any insights?
In addition, are there any believers on this forum that can furnish evidence that these theories are real?
Click to expand...

Hello Cosmic Yak,

I have debunked the Agenda 21 Hoax, but I am new here and I am being blocked from posting anything.

At some point, I will try to intelligently respond.

Best Regards,

Snoop
 
Cosmic Yak said:
We don't seem to have an active thread on this, so I thought I'd start one.
The conspiracy theories surrounding the UN's Agenda 21 are quite well-known but I have been wondering about a couple of things.
Firstly, what is it about Agenda 21, among all the varied activities and policies of the UN, that has got the tinfoil hat brigade so worked up? Is it just because it has the word "Agenda" in the title, or is there something in the wording of the actual policy that has sparked this reaction?

Secondly, what is the UN supposed to gain from this supposed depopulation of the globe? Why would they do this, and why would they publish what they are going to do in advance? Thie idea that governments want to abolish themselves, and/or drastically reduce their power and revenue by killing the majority of their citizens, and that major corporations want to kill off most of their customers, publically to boot, makes absolutely no sense to me. Does anyone have any insights?
In addition, are there any believers on this forum that can furnish evidence that these theories are real?
Click to expand...

Hello Cosmic Yak,

Agreed. The chief promoter of the Agenda 21 "depopulation" conspiracy theory is Deborah Tavares, a "third generation land developer" in Sebastopol, California (a person who profits by destroying forests).

The facts are that Agenda 21 is a 100 page document written by the world's leading environmental scientists. It was presented in 1992 at a UN conference called "Earth Summit" (an environmental conference) in Rio.

It was only a SUGGESTION, a proposed law. If adopted, it would ensure that humanity does not destroy the environment at a rate faster than the environment can recover from being destroyed (called "sustainable development"). It was only a SUGGESTION that signatory nations were PERMITTED, BUT NOT REQUIRED TO ADOPT. Although it was symbolically signed by President Bush, it was not ratified by any other part of government and NEVER BECAME THE LAW IN THE UNITED STATES and is NOT ENFORCED ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES. So, it is completely irrelevant in the United States.

An Agenda 21 Map was produced of the United States reflecting what was, at the time (in 1992), the remaining forests for which FURTHER deforestation would not be allowed under Agenda 21.

This map frightened Deborah Tavares, because she interpreted the map AS EXPANDING THE SIZE OF THE FORESTS INTO AREAS ALREADY OCCUPIED BY HUMANS (and something that would adversely affect her land development business by prevented FURTHER development of the forests).

So, to emphasize these horrors, Deborah Tavares has interpreted Agenda 21 to be a United Nations scheme to drive us out of our rural and suburban homes into tightly-packed, over-populated "Kill Cities" for extermination in furtherance of the planed extinction of mankind.

But, this conclusion is pure fiction. Agenda 21 was EFFECTIVELY REJECTED by the United States as a whole. It is not law in the United States, is not enforced anywhere in the United States and is completely irrelevant in the United States.

When the recent fires destroyed forests in California, Deborah Tavares concluded that these fires were "Agenda 21 Fires" because they served to drive people out of their rural and suburban homes into tightly-packed, over-populated "Kill Cities" for extermination in furtherance of the planed extinction of mankind.

Her claims are pure hogwash. I would show proof, but I am a new member and unable to post comments with links.

Best Regards,

Snoop
 
Horatius said:
Yeah, this. It's clear from every other case we've ever looked into, in which a CTist claims a particular government plan or report is "proof" that "they" are doing something nefarious, that the people who most believe the CT have never actually read the document in its entirety, or even a significant portion of it.

So people like Alex Jones can find a good-sounding document, wave a copy about on their podcasts, and claim it says anything they want to claim, secure in the knowledge that their audience will almost certainly never read the document themselves, to ind out they've been lied to.
Click to expand...

Hello Horatius,

You knocked it out of the park with this one.

Excellent comment and verifiably true.

Best Regards,

Snoop
 
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