Afrocentrism?

[Dr. Fascism]

So, I'm a college student that is finishing up my Intro to Black Studies course.

And my finely-tuned crap detectors have been telling me I've been fed political and racial ideology over the facts. Actually, I'm extremely certain of it; what is scary is that none of my peers seem to know that the class was essentially highly left-wing, perhaps racist indoctrination.

Our book? Karenga's Introduction to Black Studies. Yes, the guy that invented Kwanzaa.

I want to sort the nonsense from fact, if there's anything of value to be gleaned from this class. I feel my mind may be poisoned and I'm hoping someone can help shed some light on this.

First of, the class blatantly speaks negatively of capitalism, individualism, and favors what I assume would be socialism and collectivism. If only I knew what to quote from the book to illustrate it...!?h Obviously, it seems to separate blacks from whites, Karenga's book going so far as to capitalize "Black" and keep "white" lowercase.

Here, we see talk of the "African" and "European" worldviews: http://www.edofolks.com/html/pub9.htm

This is essentially what was discussed in the very beginnings of the class and seems to be what much of this stuff is based on. I suspect this is complete and utter ideological hogwash based on political motivation and racist ideology. Unfortunately, I know very little about the actual developments of European and particularly African culture, but it seems to me that creating a false distinction and a grossly broad view of "European" and "African".

The book is filled with spelling errors and grammatical oddities. In one point, it mentions "bio-socialists", but I'm wondering if it means "sociobiologists" (anyone know???): ..."the bio-socialists who deny cultural differences..."; I am pretty sure there is no such thing as a bio-socialist and this surely either must be as terrible scholarship as I think it is, or I must be a very smart undergraduate student, for finding this (probable) error. I wish I could provide more examples but it's harder to find good single statements when the whole thing seems to be pure propaganda and nonsense at the very premises.

Afrocentrism I can find very little information about. The article on skepdic focuses mainly on the belief that Egyptians were "Black", or something. I'm coming here and hoping someone educated and knowledgeable about this subject can enlighten me over what I may have been told that's pure hogwash--it's really hard to sort fact from fiction in instances such as these.

 

[Complexity]

Why are you taking an 'Intro to Black Studies' course?

 

[Dr. Fascism]

Why are you taking an 'Intro to Black Studies' course?

...why the holy hell does that matter? Unless you're going to make an actual point:

We have cultural diversity requirements. Almost everyone in the class took it because they need to knock those off.

Actually, part of the reason really was, and I am not joking, to see if the Black Studies classes were filled with this sort of nonsense--can't fight nonsense until you view it first hand, I think. So yes, I came into the class and my expectations were exceeded. Two birds with one stone--satisfy my curiosity, and get a requirement out of the way.

...or is my own viewpoint wrong? Am I being paranoid. Tell me if I am.

And no, I'm not a racist.

 

[madurobob]

What complexity said. Why did you choose this course? I somehow doubt you signed up with wide-eyed innocence expecting nothing more than sanitized black history full of facts and devoid of opinion.

It sounds like your issue is that the opinion doesn't jibe with yours. Welcome to college.

What "facts" from the book are you having trouble with?

Yeah, I have no idea what a bio-socialist is. Sounds fun, though.

 

[quixotecoyote]

What I find most amusing about Afrocentrism is that it shows that some people weren't complaining about Eurocentrist history because it was unfair, they were complaining because it wasn't unfair in their favor.

Your link is a joke too. Eurocentrists believe in a 'distant impersonal god'? Then why is I'm always hearing about 'get closer to Jesus'?

"The highest value of life lies in the object, or in the acquisition of the object; "

This seems like a joke too.

It's also funny that with all those Natural African Values that they aren't any more of a harmonious society than anywhere else in the world.

 

[Zygar]

I agree that Afrocentrism is all about reversing the bias of the world and pointing the finger of blame at Europeans. I can't really blame them considering what Europe did to Africa in the Age of Imperialism.

Anyway, my opinion on this class is that you should give it a chance and see how it goes. It's not going to do you any good to get all militant. That will just cause people to get defensive and ignore your opinions. But if you carefully point out some flaws as you go, I think those in the class who actually are listening will realize that you've got a point.

 

[shadron]

I want to sort the nonsense from fact, if there's anything of value to be gleaned from this class. I feel my mind may be poisoned and I'm hoping someone can help shed some light on this.

Good luck with that. If you insist on finding fact, you'll never get anywhere, because, in something as slippery as "Black Studies" (not even Black "History") all is opinion - fact is not to be found. Who promised you your political beliefs would be coddled? How are you going to create informed opinions if you don't know what your opponent is thinking? Minds at your age should not be capable of being "poisoned".

First of, the class blatantly speaks negatively of capitalism, individualism, and favors what I assume would be socialism and collectivism. If only I knew what to quote from the book to illustrate it...!?h

You're having trouble finding stuff in the book which you can disagree with? You give new meaning to the copout about not being able to define art, but knowing what it is when you see it. If you went looking for validation of your conservative beliefs, I'm afraid you are looking in the wrong pew. You need to go find a course on Calvinist/Puritan history; that'll better support your feelings. Careful of that work ethic.

Think deeply about why you are going to college. If it is disagreeable to you to have your mind forced to stretch in odd directions, then you may not be in the optimal spot to promote your life's enjoyment.

 

[madurobob]

It's not going to do you any good to get all militant. That will just cause people to get defensive and ignore your opinions. But if you carefully point out some flaws as you go, I think those in the class who actually are listening will realize that you've got a point.

Sage advice there for you Dr Fascism! Heard it before?

 

[Dr. Fascism]

What complexity said. Why did you choose this course? I somehow doubt you signed up with wide-eyed innocence expecting nothing more than sanitized black history full of facts and devoid of opinion.

If you had read my posts--you didn't, naturally--you'd see that that's not the case at all, but I want other perspectives.

The other students, however, probably are.

Why the hell is everyone on this forum so ****ing hostile? The elitist, ***hole mentality on here is huge.

It sounds like your issue is that the opinion doesn't jibe with yours. Welcome to college.

Yeah, OK, a professor making a random passing comment about peoples' belief about the weather possibly influencing the weather, yeah, I guess I'm just a jerk disagreeing with those more knowledgeable than I am.

What "facts" from the book are you having trouble with?

That's the thing--I'm unsure of whether the "facts" in this book--actually, more broadly, the class, the book was a small part of the class--are trustworthy. I want someone who knows about this issue--someone who won't come in and blast me for "not agreeing with my professor"--to give me an informed opinion over this. I'm not going to dismiss everything out of hand, but... wait a minute, you didn't even read my post, I doubt you're going to read this one as well.

European/African worldviews, etc etc. I can't really clarify it all. Here, let me quote another passage from the "Black psychology" section:

In 1968 the Association of Black Psychologists (ABP) was founded in the midst of criticism of the American Psychological Association (APA) for its limited vision and conscious and unconscious support of the racist character of American society.

Statements like that...

Things mentioned also just seem like the whole "Black Studies", if this book characterizes it correct, to be bunk, complete nonsense. Another example in the Black Psychology section since it's open:

The concerns of Black psychology revolve around the development of a discipline which not only studies the behavior of Black persons, but seeks to transform them into self-conscious agents of their own mental, emotional, and social liberation. This is achieved through: 1) a severe critique and rejection of white psychology, in terms of its methodology, conclusions, and the ideological premises on which it rests; 2) provision of Afrocentric models of study, prevention and treatment; and 3) self-conscious intervention in the social struggle to achieve and insure conditions of well-being and wholeness for African persons and people and a context of maximum human freedom and human flourishing in the world.

So... what's wrong with so-called "white psychology...?

 

[madurobob]

So... what's wrong with so-called "white psychology...?

Google "eugenics" and you may get a clue about what much of this was about.

FWIW I agree that the course you are in sounds rather biased. But, only a fool would be surprised by this.* Would you be surprised to learn a lot about Buddhism in an "Eastern Cultures" class?

(*I don't think you're a fool. I think you knew just what you were getting yourself into and found exactly what you went looking for.)

 

[Zygar]

Why the hell is everyone on this forum so ****ing hostile? The elitist, ***hole mentality on here is huge.

Not sure where you're coming from, there. I didn't see any hostility aimed at you. Just a search for why you're so worked up.

 

[JoeEllison]

The whole thing sounds like a lie to me... the OP as well as his fictional class.

 

[Dr. Fascism]

Good luck with that. If you insist on finding fact, you'll never get anywhere, because, in something as slippery as "Black Studies" (not even Black "History") all is opinion - fact is not to be found. Who promised you your political beliefs would be coddled? How are you going to create informed opinions if you don't know what your opponent is thinking? Minds at your age should not be capable of being "poisoned".

On what grounds do you say "Black Studies" is supposed to be mere opinion? You're talking out of your ass.

Maybe poisoned was the wrong word. Unsure of whether to trust what I'm told. I initially thought skepticism was questioning and investigating things to see if they hold up, which is what I'm doing. Maybe I came to the wrong place for that.

You're having trouble finding stuff in the book which you can disagree with? You give new meaning to the copout about not being able to define art, but knowing what it is when you see it. If you went looking for validation of your conservative beliefs, I'm afraid you are looking in the wrong pew. You need to go find a course on Calvinist/Puritan history; that'll better support your feelings. Careful of that work ethic.

Ah, so the left-wingers are already getting all militant! I thank you for putting words in my mouth; I didn't say I had trouble finding things I disagree with so much as it is rather difficult to point to one entire thing and say "AH-HA! BIAS!", or what I'm more concerned about and hoping someone who isn't an ass to come around and provide me information on this instead of bullying.

Actually, I don't think professors should be injecting blatant political bias in the classrooms, left or right. I didn't come to hear a speech by Noam Chomsky. At least, partially not, though part of the reason I did take the class was to see if the stereotypes were true. Looks like a lot of them were.

Additionally, if the class is going to indoctrinate people into a political belief then it should not be under the guise of "cultural diversity".

If it helps, the whole African/European worldview seems to basically be an attack on the individualistic, capitalistic, "cold hard empiricism" western viewpoint. The African worldview is more "holistic", to quote a part of a handout that I have here that I kept, "Epistemology: knowledge comes through what is seen and unseen; self-knowledge; symbolic imagery and rhythm." If the scholarship of Black studies is based on this "African worldview" (and essentially that is what I was taught in that class) then I can only wonder what academic standards they hold themselves to!

Think deeply about why you are going to college. If it is disagreeable to you to have your mind forced to stretch in odd directions, then you may not be in the optimal spot to promote your life's enjoyment.

Basically, I disagree with the idea that professors should be normative and generally apolitical and instead should merely present information.

I've heard professors voice opinions I disagree with and thought silly (and later laughed about) but at least they didn't base their subject matter around their beliefs, at least, not to the extent seemingly done here, which seems to be more "suggesting" more than "informing", in many ways.

I have an opinion but I'm here to see if I'm wrong, and you're laying down not-so-subtle insults. I think it'd be pretty great if you were more polite, but... I may have hit a sore spot on your own political leanings... for that, I guess I apologize.

 

[Dr. Fascism]

The whole thing sounds like a lie to me... the OP as well as his fictional class.

You're right, I did not take a class that had a test question asking me if Taco Bell's use of the Taco Bell dog and using Spanish words was racist.

But I guess college tests grades in classes that are essentially required (alternatives exist, but they're mostly other "* Studies") should be based on politics and highly contentious issues.



Also, since you're willing to go the conspiracy theory route, Bush did 9/11, right? I have to laugh reading this because I'm quoting my own damn textbook and you're trying to tell people I'm lying for who knows what reason.

 

[Dr. Fascism]

Google "eugenics" and you may get a clue about what much of this was about.

I don't quite think that's what they are talking about. I don't recall the APA ever advocating eugenics, and I'm pretty sure that the eugenics movement was pretty much dead by that time anyway.

FWIW I agree that the course you are in sounds rather biased. But, only a fool would be surprised by this.* Would you be surprised to learn a lot about Buddhism in an "Eastern Cultures" class?

No, but I would be if the instructor tried to sell us on Buddhism ever day.

(*I don't think you're a fool. I think you knew just what you were getting yourself into and found exactly what you went looking for.)

Yes, but what is the bull and what isn't? Take a look at the skepdic entry; and see why I am here.

 

[Dr. Fascism]

Let me ask again: What scholarship is this so-called "European worldview" based on, and why haven't I heard of it before? And it just-so happens to be the opposite of this "African worldview", which is a bunch of nice things like "communalistic, matriarchal, holistic,etc".

I read The Skeptic's Dictionary entry on this and most of it seems to mesh with how I perceived the class. Do you have an issue with that, too? Or are you just here for some sadistic mental masturbation?

I suppose we should also teach creationism in college, because hey, not everyone agrees, and students shouldn't expect their beliefs to just be coddled.

 

[Dr. Fascism]

http://www.skepdic.com/afrocent.html

There's criticisms, but that's a little light, and there's books on the subject that I don't have immediate access to. I came here to see if anyone knew more but instead I was attacked for not appreciating political and social ideology being shoved down my throat. I suppose I made the mistake of being skeptical instead of eagerly embracing something I was suspicious of. How horrible of me to ask for other people familiar with this on the matter--instead of I get left-wingers skimming my posts bashing me for appreciating being suggested political beliefs--not matters of fact, but normative statements. I guess objectivity is out the window these days.

 

[LostAngeles]

Let me ask again: What scholarship is this so-called "European worldview" based on, and why haven't I heard of it before? And it just-so happens to be the opposite of this "African worldview", which is a bunch of nice things like "communalistic, matriarchal, holistic,etc".

I read The Skeptic's Dictionary entry on this and most of it seems to mesh with how I perceived the class. Do you have an issue with that, too? Or are you just here for some sadistic mental masturbation?

I suppose we should also teach creationism in college, because hey, not everyone agrees, and students shouldn't expect their beliefs to just be coddled.

I'm reading the new and expanded edition of Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong. There's very good passages in there on how racism basically developed. You can read appalling quotes in there from Christopher Columbus, Woodrow Wilson, Congressmen, segregationists, philosophers, and others on how low those with darker skin are. All men are created free, except for those who aren't. That was the American and European worldview for a while.

We got better and then we ****ed it all up and we're starting to get better again.

Africa is more diverse than Europe is. You have sub-Saharan blacks, the !Kung, and Pygmies, three out of the five core groups of humans (Asian and Caucasian being the other two. It is acknowledged that the majority of the human population is a mix of these groups. See Guns, Germs, and Steel for more.) Whatever an, "African worldview," is would probably vary depending on who you asked. I doubt the Zulu would agree with the !Kung would agree with the Hutsi. On the other hand, Europe occupies a smaller space and shares a core religion. Ideas travel easier and the cultural exchange is faster. As another example, consider China, which became a nation about 6,000 years ago.

So, this bleeding-heart, multi-racial liberal utterly agrees with you that Afrocentrism isn't much better than Eurocentrism, because well, ********. It's one thing to teach about Africa and the cultures that were and are and look at what influence they maintain today in the black community, to talk about the empires and complex societies that did exist in Africa that aren't discussed in most schools, to consider where this country has failed and succeeded when dealing with matters of race, and an entire other thing to attempt to just lift your people up by talking about HOW AWESOME THEY ARE.

 

[Dr. Fascism]

I agree that Afrocentrism is all about reversing the bias of the world and pointing the finger of blame at Europeans. I can't really blame them considering what Europe did to Africa in the Age of Imperialism.

That's kind of silly.

Anyway, my opinion on this class is that you should give it a chance and see how it goes. It's not going to do you any good to get all militant. That will just cause people to get defensive and ignore your opinions. But if you carefully point out some flaws as you go, I think those in the class who actually are listening will realize that you've got a point.

Madurobob agreed with you.

What's revealing is that it shows both of you didn't even read the very first sentence of my initial post.

I never spoke up in class because I was afraid of offering the "wrong opinion" and having the instructor get angry. In all honesty, if the class is teaching a political viewpoint, not agreeing with that bias can probably have a big impact on your grade!

 

[LostAngeles]

That's kind of silly.



Madurobob agreed with you.

What's revealing is that it shows both of you didn't even read the very first sentence of my initial post.

I never spoke up in class because I was afraid of offering the "wrong opinion" and having the instructor get angry. In all honesty, if the class is teaching a political viewpoint, not agreeing with that bias can probably have a big impact on your grade!

Which is why your campus probably has an ombudsman. This is what they are for. If you legitimately did the work, even though you disagreed with the political viewpoint and completed the assignments as asked, then you deserve a grade based on your scholarship. If you have done all that and you think your poor grade is the result of politics, then you get your ass down to the ombudsman and the department and you have them serve you an ass.