Advocating intifada in USA?

[gnome]

Unfortunately I can't seem to dig up any details, but I heard unsettling news while listening to an admittedly right-leaning radio show (The Glenn Beck program) this morning.

He played an audio from a speech last week at an anti-war rally at UC in Berkeley, and identified the speaker as a lecturer with a PHD in Middle Eastern Studies. The speaker clearly and directly suggested it was time for an intifada in America, and that the opposition should use the methods of the insurgents in Palestine and Iraq.

I could not escape the conclusion that he was directly advocating violent uprising. Yet he was answered by cheers from the gathered crowd.

As an American with anti-war leanings, I feel I have to find out more about this and speak out. If the story is accurate, we cannot allow this lecturer to represent the anti-war movement... the only ethical anti-war stance is one that promotes only nonviolent resistance.

Can anyone tell me if this is a bullsh!t story, or get more details?

 

[Tmy]

Dont worry about it. After all Berkley CA. does not qualify as being "part of America".

 

[daenku32]

Yahoo! only has WND and Lucienne stories about it.

It sounds crazy. Even for Berkeley.


Or, he ment it in a not-suicide-bomber-type intifada.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by gnome
Unfortunately I can't seem to dig up any details, but I heard unsettling news while listening to an admittedly right-leaning radio show (The Glenn Beck program) this morning.

He played an audio from a speech last week at an anti-war rally at UC in Berkeley, and identified the speaker as a lecturer with a PHD in Middle Eastern Studies. The speaker clearly and directly suggested it was time for an intifada in America, and that the opposition should use the methods of the insurgents in Palestine and Iraq.

You mean Hatem Bazain?

http://users.lmi.net/zombie/sf_rally_april_10_2004/movies/

http://www.campus-watch.org/

http://www.hatembazian.com/

http://www.danielpipes.org/

http://www.meforum.org/

Originally posted by gnome As an American with anti-war leanings, I feel I have to find out more about this and speak out. If the story is accurate, we cannot allow this lecturer to represent the anti-war movement... the only ethical anti-war stance is one that promotes only nonviolent resistance.

Yes, do. Liberalism is being hijacked by those who don't have our best interests at heart.

 

[Charlie Monoxide]

An intifada in Berkeley would consist of hard-core lefties throwing their empty Starbucks coffee cups on the ground.

Charlie (go east from SF and hang a left to Bay Meadows, instead of a right to Berkeley) MOnoxide

 

[Tmy]

An intifada in Berkeley would consist of hard-core lefties throwing their empty Starbucks coffee cups on the ground.

Charlie (go east from SF and hang a left to Bay Meadows, instead of a right to Berkeley) MOnoxide

No that would be pollution!!

I imagine them pelting police with old hacky sacks and sushi rolls..

 

[gnome]

Yes, this Bazain is the one I'm thinking of...

I'm all for free speech, but hasn't he crossed the line by advocating violence against the government? I should think he can be charged with a crime and suspended from his position.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by gnome Yes, this Bazain is the one I'm thinking of...

I'm all for free speech, but hasn't he crossed the line by advocating violence against the government? I should think he can be charged with a crime and suspended from his position.

Yes and no.

Yes, he is advocating violence, yes that does cross the line.

However, if the government brought charges, that would only galvinize the liberals to support him (and pay even less attention to his actual message) by evoking images and memories of the 60's and 70's, and he would never be convicted because he would be able to claim that he meant intifada in a figurative sense, even though he doesn't.

 

[c0rbin]

Glenn Beck is a tool.

 

[reprise]

Yes, this Bazain is the one I'm thinking of...

I'm all for free speech, but hasn't he crossed the line by advocating violence against the government? I should think he can be charged with a crime and suspended from his position.

IIRC, US law demands that such advocating of violence must pose a clear, present, and immediate danger before it can be classified as a crime. I'd be pretty horrified if any democracy started suspending people from their positions of employment on the basis of their political beliefs, the McCarthy era notwithstanding.

 

[Jocko]

IIRC, US law demands that such advocating of violence must pose a clear, present, and immediate danger before it can be classified as a crime. I'd be pretty horrified if any democracy started suspending people from their positions of employment on the basis of their political beliefs, the McCarthy era notwithstanding.

I agree, but on the other hand, would you take a group of 19 angry, anti-American arab men as a clear and present danger to our way of life?

Now picture them on airplanes.

It doesn't take a rampaging mob of thousands to present a real danger any more, unfortunately.

 

[headscratcher4]

It doesn't take a rampaging mob of thousands to present a real danger any more, unfortunately.

So we better junk the Constitution and throw everyone opposed to the War, The Administration, current US policy in jail now before they become a clear and present danger (a'la Iraq, as it were), yeah, that's the ticket....

It works so well in Cuba, China, Russia, North Korea etc.

 

[reprise]

I agree, but on the other hand, would you take a group of 19 angry, anti-American arab men as a clear and present danger to our way of life?

Now picture them on airplanes.

It doesn't take a rampaging mob of thousands to present a real danger any more, unfortunately.

False analogy, I'm afraid.

 

[epepke]

I agree, but on the other hand, would you take a group of 19 angry, anti-American arab men as a clear and present danger to our way of life?

Now picture them on airplanes.

It still has to be imminent. Now, if he had been handing out airline tickets and box cutters, well...

 

[Jocko]

False analogy, I'm afraid.

It's not an analogy, it's a shift in the circumstances behind an otherwise innocuous situation. It's not even a hypothetical shift since it's already been done.

 

[daenku32]

It's not an analogy, it's a shift in the circumstances behind an otherwise innocuous situation. It's not even a hypothetical shift since it's already been done.

Is that why when ever you have more than three guys standing together in a ghetto, they are consider a "gang"?

 

[Jocko]

Is that why when ever you have more than three guys standing together in a ghetto, they are consider a "gang"?

I don't see why you're trying to extrapolate a generality in racist terms from a specificity in practical terms.

All that aside, I said no such thing and neither has anyone else. So what's your point?

 

[gnome]

Glenn Beck is a tool.

He may be a tool, but that doesn't mean he is incapable of mentioning something worthy of concern. On this occasion he seems to be right. As liberals and anti-war types we should MAKE this our issue, first of all just because it goes against what we believe in and we need to make that clear--but also because if we don't, it will be ammunition against us.

Alright, the law says he can advocate violence all he wants, as long as he is not a clear and present danger--? I'm not certain that is correct. Can anyone cite references about this?

If the left rises up in outrage to defend a man who expressly supports violent means--that's OUR fault... we shouldn't.

Direct quote from him: "By any means necessary." UNQUALIFIED. I have heard the audio and read a transcript.

If violent means are acceptable, then what the US does is 100% correct and we might as well back the home team.

 

[corplinx]

Intifada?

In the words of a certain Texan, "bring it on".

 

[The Fool]

I don't see why you're trying to extrapolate a generality in racist terms from a specificity in practical terms.

All that aside, I said no such thing and neither has anyone else. So what's your point?

Are these people you are refering to in your more evolved or less evolved cultural groupings??


you ask me to imagine them on an aeroplane....Hmmmm, are you suggesting there should be a limit to the number of Arabs allowed on any single aircraft????


Imagine them on an aeroplane....Lol....why not imagine them eating babies too?