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Adam, Eve, & population growth

Flaherty

Critical Thinker
Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Messages
293
Growth rates are tricky things to work with, especially population growth rates. They *never* grow at a smooth rate and often have prolonged periods of negative growth. Here's an illustration.

We start with 2 people, Adam & Eve, who appeared around 4004 BC according to a literalist's Biblical chronology. So this gives 6003 years for the population to grow from 2 people to 6 billion. That works out to an average annual population growth of 0.364%, which is far less than the current global growth rate of about 2%.

Assuming the 0.364% annual growth rate, then by the year 2500 BC there were only about 462 people alive in the world. If we assume 1/10 of them lived in Egypt, then about 46 people built the pyramids. Historians and archaeologists believe it took tens of thousands of workers decades just to build one pyramid.

By 2000 BC when Noah was building boats there were 2,906 people in the world. After God lovingly killed 2,898 of these people by leaving the faucet running, there were only 8 humans left --- Noah and his clan. Starting with these 8 folks, we’d need a 0.512% annual population growth rate to get to our current level. With this new starting population and growth rate, by 1500 BC when the Host of Pharaoh was chasing the Hebrews as they fled Egypt, there would have been 103 people in the world, about 10 of which lived in Egypt. The "Host of Pharaoh" was actually more like 3 guys chasing 2 Hebrews, one of which was Moses.

Moving ahead to 300 BC when Alexander was doing Great things, there were only 47,147 people in the world, maybe 10,000 of which lived in the territories he conquered. Alexander had more than that in his army alone. By the time Jesus lived, there would have been 218,232 people in the world, maybe 50,000 of which lived in the Roman Empire (the city of Rome by itself is known to have had a population of around 100,000 at that time).

Let’s go back to the original sinners, Adam and Eve. If we use today's population growth rate of 2% and start with the first couple 6007 years ago, then by 2500 BC there would have been more than 17 trillion people in the world, or about 2800 times more than there are now. And at that rate we would today have 9.17+E51 people on the planet (that's a 917 followed by 51 zeros). The total mass of humanity would probably exceed the mass of the solar system.
 
Another little detail ...

After Cain killed Abel, he left the area and got married.

To who? Is what I have wondered.
 
Crossbow said:

After Cain killed Abel, he left the area and got married.

To who? Is what I have wondered.

Genesis 5:3-4
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
Supposedly it was one of those unnamed daughters.
 
Not counting the 20th century population spike, the growth rate is much lower anyway.
 
good ... but ...

don't forget to factor in the couple-of-people that were able to rush over to other parts of the world, (Africa, Asia, Australia, Americas, even Europe), raise their own civilizations and cultures at record speeds ... even such that the population of Asia was higher than the population in the middle east ... twice ... and somehow pick up where they left off, maintaining linguistic traits based on geographical location. There are Chinese writings that would appear to be pre-flood that are still related to modern characters.

On a related note, here is the weak argument from a Creationist site to the simple question, "Did kangaroos hop all the way from Australia?"

http://www.creationevidence.org/cem...creationevidence.org/fa_questions/prymid.html
 
oops ... the link went to something about the pyramid instead ... anyway, I don't advocate them ... but it's nice to see them dance

we have some trees here in California that are supposed to be older than the pyramids, but still alive ... guess they were above the water line?
 
Crossbow said:


But Cain left before those other daughters showed up, yes?

I very vaguely recall that god also created another woman named Lilith or Leleth - not sure about the name. Maybe Cain maried his "aunt"?
 
Crossbow said:

But Cain left before those other daughters
showed up, yes?

Yes he left, but the way the text is worded one possible interpretation is that he waited for ~100 years before marrying.
 
Chaos said:


I very vaguely recall that god also created another woman named Lilith or Leleth - not sure about the name. Maybe Cain maried his "aunt"?

That one is not from the Bible, but from separate Jewish myth. According to it, God first created Lilith from the dust like he created Adam, but since she didn't submit to Adam's authority she was banished and Eve was made from Adam's rib.

According to one book I've read, one version of the myth has it that the argument between Adam and Lilith was about who should be on the top.
 
LW said:


Yes he left, but the way the text is worded one possible interpretation is that he waited for ~100 years before marrying.

OK then. So then a hundred-plus-year-old Cain married one of his sisters, right?
 
This also ignores the fact that all that inbreeding likely would have wiped out humanity within a couple of thousand years.


Swstephe,

I hate that web site. Idiots. Farging idiots.
 
I like the idea pushed by Science Made Stupid that religion and science can get along.

You see the Evolutionists and Creationists can both contribute to a more thorough understanding of how human beings came about.

God created Adam and Eve.

They had Cain and Abel.

Then some apes evolved into women.

And those early hominid women becam Adam and Eve's daughters in law.
 
LW said:


That one is not from the Bible, but from separate Jewish myth. According to it, God first created Lilith from the dust like he created Adam, but since she didn't submit to Adam's authority she was banished and Eve was made from Adam's rib.

According to one book I've read, one version of the myth has it that the argument between Adam and Lilith was about who should be on the top.

I heard God proposed to Adam that he would create for him this gorgeous creature that would cater to his every whim without question; but that it was going to cost him " an arm and a leg "..

Adam supposedly countered with: " What can I get for a rib? ":D
 
Andonyx said:
I like the idea pushed by Science Made Stupid that religion and science can get along.

You see the Evolutionists and Creationists can both contribute to a more thorough understanding of how human beings came about.

God created Adam and Eve.

They had Cain and Abel.

Then some apes evolved into women.

And those early hominid women becam Adam and Eve's daughters in law.

I found a copy online (now that it is out of print):

http://www.besse.at/sms/smsintro.html

I think this is the part you are referring to?

synthes.gif
 
Flaherty said:
Growth rates are tricky things to work with, especially population growth rates. They *never* grow at a smooth rate and often have prolonged periods of negative growth. Here's an illustration.

We start with 2 people, Adam & Eve, who appeared around 4004 BC according to a literalist's Biblical chronology. So this gives 6003 years for the population to grow from 2 people to 6 billion. That works out to an average annual population growth of 0.364%, which is far less than the current global growth rate of about 2%.

Assuming the 0.364% annual growth rate, then by the year 2500 BC there were only about 462 people alive in the world. If we assume 1/10 of them lived in Egypt, then about 46 people built the pyramids. Historians and archaeologists believe it took tens of thousands of workers decades just to build one pyramid.

By 2000 BC when Noah was building boats there were 2,906 people in the world. After God lovingly killed 2,898 of these people by leaving the faucet running, there were only 8 humans left --- Noah and his clan. Starting with these 8 folks, we’d need a 0.512% annual population growth rate to get to our current level. With this new starting population and growth rate, by 1500 BC when the Host of Pharaoh was chasing the Hebrews as they fled Egypt, there would have been 103 people in the world, about 10 of which lived in Egypt. The "Host of Pharaoh" was actually more like 3 guys chasing 2 Hebrews, one of which was Moses.

Moving ahead to 300 BC when Alexander was doing Great things, there were only 47,147 people in the world, maybe 10,000 of which lived in the territories he conquered. Alexander had more than that in his army alone. By the time Jesus lived, there would have been 218,232 people in the world, maybe 50,000 of which lived in the Roman Empire (the city of Rome by itself is known to have had a population of around 100,000 at that time).

Let’s go back to the original sinners, Adam and Eve. If we use today's population growth rate of 2% and start with the first couple 6007 years ago, then by 2500 BC there would have been more than 17 trillion people in the world, or about 2800 times more than there are now. And at that rate we would today have 9.17+E51 people on the planet (that's a 917 followed by 51 zeros). The total mass of humanity would probably exceed the mass of the solar system.



This should be copyrighted. Good job.
 
swstephe said:

Ugh, that pyramid non-sense again. I've been trying to convince Creationists they sound as stupid as UFOlogists when they make claims about it. Now I find the source. Referenced in the above link is Scottish Astronomer Royal Piazzi Smith. I did a google and found this page:
http://www.skeptics.com.au/features/news/ip-day05.htm

In discussing the sizes of the "cubit" mentioned in the Bible, he quoted various sources including one "Piazzi Smith". Charles Piazzi Smyth was a 19th century Astronomer Royal for Scotland who has gained an enduring place in the history of pseudoscience for his espousal of strange theories of the origins of the Great Pyramid of Khufu, which, he decided, contained within its stones coded references to all the events of history, past and present. Piazzi Smyth’s name is historically associated with the Egyptian "Royal Cubit" of 25.025 inches (which he invented) which was needed to make his measurements fit and which, incidentally, was somehow used to show that the British were the descendants of the Lost Tribes of Israel. However, he was probably familiar with another measurement of the cubit at 20.6 inches (one of many sizes used in ancient times) which is needed to make this structure match the Genesis description (at least in length) of the size of Noah’s Ark.

:hit:
 
Crossbow said:

OK then. So then a hundred-plus-year-old Cain married one of his sisters, right?

That seems to be the view of Biblical literalists. If one accepts that Adam was 130 when Seth was born, then having Cain being over 100 when marrying is no problem at all.
 
Cain married Eve, then built a city for 3 people, 4 when Daddy/Husband/Grandfather/Uncle/Polygamist Adam visited.
 

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