Acceptable bigotry

[Jesus]

Speaking as an American white male, I have noticed that, in spite of civil rights advancements, there seems to exist certain forms of bigotry that are still considered acceptable, and sometimes desirable.

The first form I have noticed is the anti-gay sentiment that is popular in many places. While it is not as apparent in the Northeast where I live, the general acceptance of gay bashing is everywhere. For example, if I were to walk into a public place and start using the n-word, you can bet I will find trouble sooner rather than later. However, the casual use of "fag" or "homo" probably wouldn't raise nearly as many eyebrows.

I was listening to a sports-talks radio show when a caller said he was watching a baseball game where the cameraman panned to two guys kissing in the crowd. He commented that if he was at the game with his son, that cameraman would have had to "deal with him". The show's host took him to task for this, but the caller couldn't understand why his view wasn't immediately embraced.

I am just wondering why it is ok to bash gays in this country, while we can get very sensitive in regards to ethnicity. I guess acceptance only goes so far.

The other group I find it is fine to bash is the non-believing portion of the population. It is amazing the kind of stuff I've heard from people, especially the ones who think it is insane that someone would not believe in the supernatural, be it god(s), psychics, astrology, or what have you.

Another brief anecdote from talk radio: I was listening to the Phil Hendrie show, where he was playing a character that did something morally questionable (I can't remember the act right now). A person called up (thinking Hendrie's voice-acting was an actual person) and said the person must be an atheist, because someone who believed in and feared god would never be so immoral. The irony of that statement should need no explanation.

Are these or other groups fair game to be discriminated against in other countries besides the States? Or am I just crazy, thinking that my anecdotes are indicative of a bigger problem that doesn't really exist? Any comments are welcome.

 

[Ducky]

All good points. I agree, but I qualify this with a rather untestable hypothesis (call the skeptic police!) :

I honestly think the natural reaction to things people don't understand or relate to is hostility and ridicule. In both cases, gay or athiest is something that most people could never fathom. I wonder if there is a way to combat this?

Good post.

 

[rikzilla]

Gays and Atheists are extreme minorities. Majorities always have picked on minorities. It isn't right...it just is. Such attitudes should be condemned when heard as general principle. Problem is, most reasonable folks remain quiet.

But there's a bright side...times and attitudes have changed quite alot in recent years. We're moving in the right direction, albeit slowly.

Good OP...welcome Hayseus!

-z

 

[Mycroft]

I agree with everything you say, but I would also add that religious people face discrimination in addition to the non-religious people.

Welcome to the forums, I hope you like it here.

 

[Ryokan]

I'm glad I live in Europe, where people can be gay atheists without a problem

Edit : I admit, it's an exageration. While atheists get to live in peace, there is some gay-hating from the religious and political far right. However, these are extremely small fringe groups.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I'm glad I live in Europe, where people can be gay atheists without a problem

Edit : I admit, it's an exageration. While atheists get to live in peace, there is some gay-hating from the religious and political far right. However, these are extremely small fringe groups.

It's funny: in America, I'd say that gays will win acceptance and toleration faster than atheists will.

 

[Darat]

What about red-heads? I being serious about this, it may seem a silly thing to be concerned about but certainly on UK TV and even in the print media it is seen that it is OK to make fun of people with "ginger" hair.

It seems quite funny and harmless yet there is a real negative side to it, one is the way red-headed children become the butt of many jokes and probably even some bullying by other children (the constant TV endorsement of "it's OK to pick on ginger-mingers"). The other is the way it continues to endorse that it is OK to single out a group of people that by a "feature" are "different" to us and therefore they do not have to be treated in the same way as we treat one another.

Indeed as an exercise many years ago I once asked some friends to (when they told me some jokes about "ginger nuts"*) say the exact same jokes but use the word black instead of ginger. For some reason that made them quite uncomfortable.

(*I do have red hair - what's left of it anyway and that was many years ago when I was “right-on” political activist, today at the best I’d roll my eyes.)

 

[Ian Osborne]

What about red-heads? I being serious about this, it may seem a silly thing to be concerned about but certainly on UK TV and even in the print media it is seen that it is OK to make fun of people with "ginger" hair.

Can you type slower? I'm blonde, and I can't read very fast...

 

[pgwenthold]

What about red-heads? I being serious about this, it may seem a silly thing to be concerned about but certainly on UK TV and even in the print media it is seen that it is OK to make fun of people with "ginger" hair.

If red hair is so put-upon, why do so many chicks dye their hair red?

Redheads are hot. At least, true redheads are...

 

[Random]

I think that anti-gay discrimination is justified by many people with the belief that it is a “choice”. Even the most venomous, hate-filled member of the KKK would not expect a black man to stop being black, as it is something they are born with and cannot change.

Almost every anti-gay activist goes out of their way to state that it is a “lifestyle choice” or whatever. If being gay is a choice, than you can hate gays based on decisions that they have made personally, rather than something they cannot change like the color of their skin. This makes it more “acceptable” than hatred based on race.

The fact that the vast majority of gays say it is not a choice can be easily dismissed by saying that gays are trying to justify their immoral behavior.

Is it legal to discriminate against bigots?

 

[Scot C. Trypal]

The “lifestyle” thing seems like a red herring to me. Many gays have lifestyles more puritan than the pilgrims. That is until you start discriminating by biological sex, which is, no doubt, something most people are born with.

Say a person is attracted to and knowingly marries an infertile woman. What makes’s this situation okay or not okay in many minds is the anatomy of that person, not their sexual orientation. They don’t even have to have 100% male anatomy to make it okay, or even the right sex chromosome, or even a male sexual identity; it’s all about the apparent sex of the person. The same sexual orientation, behaviors, and choices are discriminated against or supported based upon the anatomy of the person in which they are expressed.

It makes no sense for a person to choose a homosexual orientation, and I think the literature convincingly indicates it is a combination of genetics, hormone exposure, birth order, and some other early nurture that leads to everyone’s sexual orientation. But I can’t see why it should matter. If an adult wants to enter into a relationship with another willing adult, be it a job, a coupling, or whatever, they should not be discriminated against by traits like sex, race, and so on.

Is it legal to discriminate against bigots?

Government aside, I’d hope it’d be legal for any private individual to discriminate against any other individual, freedom of association and all. If you only want to associate with, or even hire, Hindu lesbian redheads who just can’t stand the Irish, I think you should have that right.

 

[Ducky]

...Hindu lesbian redheads who just can’t stand the Irish...

You don't happen to know of any?

I could use an intern or two in the studio....

 

[Plognark]

Saddly I've noticed both forms of prejudice are fairly well tolerated.

I still pick up on antisemitism and racism against blacks and hispanics quite a bit as well. Very disheartening.

The part of the U.S. where I live is supposed to be more tolerant and open minded than most, but that type of narrow minded non-thinking is still quite common.

 

[gethane]

The fact that the vast majority of gays say it is not a choice can be easily dismissed by saying that gays are trying to justify their immoral behavior.

To determine how much of a "choice" it is, you don't even need to ask gay people, just as a heterosexual person. Could THEY change their sexual preference simply because society told them they should?

I am not attracted to men because I'm supposed to be. I just.. well, like men I'm enough of a rebel, that if I could've changed my preference, to be different, I probably would've.

Sexual attraction, as any honest person who has experienced it knows, is not a lot about higher brain functions, but rather hormones, evolution, and culture.

I don't understand the bias against gays, because to be biased you have to CARE what other adults do in their bedroom. I do understand the bias against atheists. It's just too scary to think about death without the crutch of something after.

 

[AmateurScientist]

What about red-heads? I being serious about this, it may seem a silly thing to be concerned about but certainly on UK TV and even in the print media it is seen that it is OK to make fun of people with "ginger" hair.

Yes, indeed, it exists in the U.S. as well. There is a common expression here wherein we often refer to something or someone unwanted as a "red-headed step-child."

Clearly, it's meant to be derogatory. I wonder if in the case of the U.S., it's vestigial prejudice against Irish immigrants, mostly in the NE, where the predominant settlers during the great Irish waves of immigration in the 19th Century were still English. I realize you're English, Darat, but in the U.S. red-hair still seems to be associated with a stereotype of being Irish.

AS

 

[AmateurScientist]

I honestly think the natural reaction to things people don't understand or relate to is hostility and ridicule. In both cases, gay or athiest is something that most people could never fathom. I wonder if there is a way to combat this?

Good post.

Yeah, I agree. The best remedy seems to be to have a child who is gay and/or atheist. That whole unconditional love thing usually kicks in and understanding takes over. It's amazing how former anti-gay bigots change when they discover one of their close and beloved relatives is gay.

AS

 

[LostAngeles]

Yes, indeed, it exists in the U.S. as well. There is a common expression here wherein we often refer to something or someone unwanted as a "red-headed step-child."

Clearly, it's meant to be derogatory. I wonder if in the case of the U.S., it's vestigial prejudice against Irish immigrants, mostly in the NE, where the predominant settlers during the great Irish waves of immigration in the 19th Century were still English. I realize you're English, Darat, but in the U.S. red-hair still seems to be associated with a stereotype of being Irish.

AS

I think I've heard is as "beaten like a red-headed step-child."

 

[AmateurScientist]

Speaking as an American white male, I have noticed that, in spite of civil rights advancements, there seems to exist certain forms of bigotry that are still considered acceptable, and sometimes desirable.

Praise Jesus! (OK, sorry, I couldn't resist. How many times have you heard that now?)

That is no doubt true. You noted two prominent examples. I think there are lots more.

One I'll mention is regional bigotry. The best example in the U.S. is the south. It is perfectly PC to stereotype southerners in degrading and insulting terms. Witness The Dukes of Hazzard, for example, and practically any other Hollywood film portraying southern characters (there are notable exceptions, usually independent films, but many of them are guilty as well). In other countries, it is quite common to make jokes about one's neighboring countries or rival ethnic groups.

What about occupational bigotry? The most obvious one is the bigotry against lawyers. Who hasn't made a lawyer joke and laughed? Were the lawyers portrayed in anything other than a derogatory or insulting fashion? If not, then why is that OK, but stereotypes based on ethnicity or lack of theism are not? Of course, car salesman and persons who perform menial tasks are often the butt of mean-spirited jokes as well, and I'm sure there are other examples, but those were the first ones to come to mind.

Food for thought.

AS

 

[Tmy]

Ill take it a step further. Its more acceptable to bash gay men than gay women. Two chicks making out........thats acceptable in many cases. Two men, well no so much.

Its evolution of soceity. Slowly we get over biases.

 

[Random]

Ill take it a step further. Its more acceptable to bash gay men than gay women. Two chicks making out........thats acceptable in many cases. Two men, well no so much.

Its evolution of soceity. Slowly we get over biases.

And now, a puplic service announcement from the staff of PVP.