ABC News hammers JE

[Flaherty]

Reading Our Audience

Whether you believe him or not, wouldn't it be great if we really could talk to the dead? To see how he works, 20/20 got together a random group of people who had never met Edward.

When he met the group, he included a warning that anyone in the room might get sucked into this process. Even the 20/20 crew.

"There's no spectators to this," Edward said. "Anybody's that's in the room becomes part of the process for me."

He then rubbed his hands together, closed his eyes and meditated before launching into a nearly 90-minute barrage of random names and numbers.

Edward's first subjects in the group were Chris and Jill, who were bombarded by names and initials. "I know there's a James connected to you, but there's another 'J' name besides James. So, I don't know if there's like a Joseph or there's like a Jack, but there's another 'J' connection that comes up over here."

Throughout the session with our sample group, Edward made references to older relatives who had died, to diseases, to "two younger energies" of two children who had died.


Facing a Skeptic’s Challenge

He made some connections during the session. But some are not impressed and say we should be challenging Edward and other psychics like him.


Somebody's got to stand up and say, 'This is baloney.' And that's what I'm doing," said Michael Shermer, founder of the Skeptics Society and author of Why People Believe Weird Things.

Shermer analyzed the video of Edward reading 20/20's volunteer group and believes Edward has a strategy. He says he simply rattles off a lot of names until an audience member tells him the right one.

"He also offers up an assortment of common diseases," Shermer said.

"All of us are gonna go, and we're gonna go from something pretty standard — cancer, heart disease. You can't go wrong with that," he said.



For more than 35 minutes, Edward quizzed Pressman with dozens of questions and observations and names. Only a handful turned out to be vaguely relevant; only one thing he mentioned was a concrete "hit." He guessed Pressman's wife's name. One good hit — out of 41 tries.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/Living/John_Edward_031205-1.html

 

[Teetop]

So is guess the conclusion here is--Edward is a fraud--now we need to get the rest of the population to understand it.

 

[KelvinG]

Only a handful turned out to be vaguely relevant; only one thing he mentioned was a concrete "hit." He guessed Pressman's wife's name. One good hit — out of 41 tries.

Yes, but expect the believers to jump all over this amazing "hit." Y'know, the old practice of ignoring all the misses and focusing in on one hit and saying "Wow, he could be the real thing."

Give me 41 tries and I'll get at least one hit. Hec, I'll probably get more than one hit. But, I doubt anyone will be particularly amazed since I don't have my own TV show.

 

[wayrad]

I wonder what her name was. Something common for women in the appropriate age group, I'll bet.

 

[renata]

Long discussion about this here

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31792

And the wife's name guess was "Laura, Laurie", name was Laura, and - my suspicion- it is possible JE researched the producer a tad before.

 

[FFed]

I wonder what her name was. Something common for women in the appropriate age group, I'll bet.

The wifes name was Laura.
He said something like I am getting a L name, Laura, Lori.

 

[CFLarsen]

And the wife's name guess was "Laura, Laurie", name was Laura, and - my suspicion- it is possible JE researched the producer a tad before.

I agree. It stinks to high heaven that JE says before the show that even the production team could be read.

And what happens? The producer is singled out.

 

[renata]

I agree. It stinks to high heaven that JE says before the show that even the production team could be read.

And what happens? The producer is singled out.

As I said in the thread I helpfully linked to

This is a common tactic of JE. He also read Tony the Cameraman on Dateline, in the incident Glory alluded to, and he read someone in LKL studio once, when he was floundering with the callers. It is possible that since he may not have had success with the audience provided him (as it was picked at random, it was unlikely to be eager believers, like on CO or even LKL) he may have zeroed in on someone for whom he felt more comfortable. Did he do research on him? Who knows. I think he would be a fool not to do some basic research, for use in just this very instance. The ABC article says a third of the readings were done on the production crew, as did the segment. The readings were 90 minutes, 30 minutes or more on production crew, mostly on the producer. Of 41 guesses, only one "solid" hit- name of the wife- easiest one to check previously.

This trick of interrupting regular readings with an insistent message from a nosy spirit is a common one as well. I have seen it several times on CO, when he reads someone else, someone who was not "meant" to be read. Of course the interrupting spirit never does seem to have anything groundbreaking to say.


(Pet peeve about many threads- we have about 3 threads on 20/20 appearance and about 5 threads on Sylvia's LKL appearance....I wish they were consolidated)

 

[dharlow]

I don't even think it neccessary to postulate reading up on the producer. From what I recall from last night, the clip only showed JE saying" L..La...Laura", and the producer says..."That's my wife". He could just have easily been his sister, mother, etc....

 

[arcticpenguin]

Is the producer's wife, Laura, still alive? If so, why would JE be getting a reading on here, since he hears from dead people?

 

[renata]

Is the producer's wife, Laura, still alive? If so, why would JE be getting a reading on here, since he hears from dead people?

The theory is that the spirit is giving some validations to let the sitter know JE is with him. So by identifying some unique things, then they can go on to the message. The message would not be from the wife, just for the sitter to understand it is meant for him. Of course, the spirits seem to be relegated to say "L, Laura, Lori" Instead of "Laura is your wife of 28 years, I wore a pink dress at your wedding and spilled some champagne on it, your anniversary is October 18th, and you met her during a drunk frat party in college but you tell everyone it was a philosophy course". See, THAT would be a validation.

 

[SteveGrenard]

dharlow: I don't even think it neccessary to postulate reading up on the producer. From what I recall from last night, the clip only showed JE saying" L..La...Laura", and the producer says..."That's my wife". He could just have easily been his sister, mother, etc....

That is correct. It could have been anybody with that name, but somebody close to Pressman would be more significant.

arcticpenguin: Is the producer's wife, Laura, still alive? If so, why would JE be getting a reading on here, since he hears from dead people?

What does her being alive or dead have to do anything? Nothing. While I am not defending JE or his process, and I am disturbed about his statement that it is his job to report everything he senses regardless of whether it is true or not, a communicator could be
mentioning somebody close to Pressman (e.g. his wife) because of their mutual relationship to her.

Having seen the test results of low profile mediums conducted by Robinson and Roy, and having personally encountered one medium who did not ask questions, who did not mention sound-alike names, who does not put out non-specific or common causes of death and where this was complete anonymity and no possibility of prior knowledge (especially with respect to some of the information given), I will not rest the case of the validity of mediumship or post-mortem communication solely on the shoulders of John Edward or Sylvia Browne.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Renata: Of course, the spirits seem to be relegated to say "L, Laura, Lori" Instead of "Laura is your wife of 28 years, I wore a pink dress at your wedding and spilled some champagne on it, your anniversary is October 18th, and you met her during a drunk frat party in college but you tell everyone it was a philosophy course". See, THAT would be a validation.

There is no reason to think that the communicator is getting the name wrong. It is the medium, in this case JE, who is not correctly perceiving this. Mediums say that the things they hear are not so clear, that there are multiple voices talking over each other (like a party line) or that the sounds are very distant or low. This could be the reason JE doesn't hear some names distinctly but it does offer him a convenient excuse to widen the net and throw out more options as Shermer correctly points out.

 

[renata]

There is no reason to think that the communicator is getting the name wrong. It is the medium, in this case JE, who is not correctly perceiving this. Mediums say that the things they hear are not so clear, that there are multiple voices talking over each other (like a party line) or that the sounds are very distant or low. This could be the reason JE doesn't hear some names distinctly but it does offer him a convenient excuse to widen the net and throw out more options as Shermer correctly points out.

That presumes the existence of the communicator. In several readings on LKL there was no attempt to establish a specific communicator altogether. Yesterday's segment was very cropped, so it was impossible to determine who the communicator was supposed to be. However, from the information we were shown, it appeared many guesses were general- J name, An name, 2/month, 11/month, older male energy, etc. In other words, any communicators, if they were there were not merely unclear, but extraordinarily general and the portions we saw certainly looked like classic cold reading.

You said before the case for mediumship does not turn on JE. In fact, you felt JE was cold reading during his most recent LKL appearance. I believe every instance of JE I have seen- all LKL appearance, CO episodes and this show he does the very same thing, only sometimes he may be luckier than others.

 

[Peter Jenkins]

I will not rest the case of the validity of mediumship or post-mortem communication solely on the shoulders of John Edward or Sylvia Browne.

That sounds like a sound strategy. I am constantly surprisd at the number of people who think that JE does anything out of the ordinary. I think that anyone who believes in him as a 'spirit medium' MUST have a belief in spirit communication first. I can't believe that anyone would be swayed to believe in spritualism by JE's lacklustre performances.

...........[snip] and having personally encountered one medium who did not ask questions, who did not mention sound-alike names, who does not put out non-specific or common causes of death and where this was complete anonymity and no possibility of prior knowledge [snip]...........

That's quite a teasing line, Steve. This unnamed person sounds interesting.......maybe a good contender for the $1 million challenge. maybe you bring it to his/her attention.
P

 

[CFLarsen]

That is correct. It could have been anybody with that name, but somebody close to Pressman would be more significant.

Not to the sitter. We have seen time and again that the sitter will stretch the guess until it fits.

You have done it too, haven't you?

What does her being alive or dead have to do anything? Nothing. While I am not defending JE or his process, and I am disturbed about his statement that it is his job to report everything he senses regardless of whether it is true or not, a communicator could be mentioning somebody close to Pressman (e.g. his wife) because of their mutual relationship to her.

It has everything to do with whether JE is a psychic medium or not. If there is no spirit communication, then what? Then he is merely being psychic - or cold reading. Nobody can tell the difference.

We have seen time and again JE throw out a name (even ask if that person is alive or not!) and rearrange his reading according to the answer he gets from the sitter.

Having seen the test results of low profile mediums conducted by Robinson and Roy...

You have?? Why are you allowed to see those results, Steve??

...and having personally encountered one medium who did not ask questions, who did not mention sound-alike names, who does not put out non-specific or common causes of death and where this was complete anonymity and no possibility of prior knowledge (especially with respect to some of the information given), I will not rest the case of the validity of mediumship or post-mortem communication solely on the shoulders of John Edward or Sylvia Browne.

Nobody is asking you to. However, you have been asked to provide evidence of that reading of yours. You have refused. It is therefore merely yet another unverifiable anecdote, and not evidence.

 

[Ratman_tf]

That's quite a teasing line, Steve. This unnamed person sounds interesting.......maybe a good contender for the $1 million challenge. maybe you bring it to his/her attention.
P

I have a Martian War Machine in my garage.

But you can't see it.

 

[SteveGrenard]

That presumes the existence of the communicator. In several readings on LKL there was no attempt to establish a specific communicator altogether.

Exactly. We have never seen worse rubbish than those readings. They are beyond bad, they are totally laughable.
I really don't know how Browne can be so self-assured she doesn't even make a semblance of trying to fake it. Even Larry couldn't help smiling a lot and shaking his head a few times. I got the mental picture of him going back stage and:

Yesterday's segment was very cropped, so it was impossible to determine who the communicator was supposed to be. However, from the information we were shown, it appeared many guesses were general- J name, An name, 2/month, 11/month, older male energy, etc. In other words, any communicators, if they were there were not merely unclear, but extraordinarily general and the portions we saw certainly looked like classic cold reading.

Indeed the performances were chopped to pieces by the editors to highlight the negative aspects they wanted to highlight. I do not rest my conclusions on JE on this performance. Again, having seen a medium who allows the communicator to speak through her, verbatim, is an experience I shall not soon forget. Seeing JE playing the game of 20 Questions and repying in the 2nd person (Me, I, myself, I am not sure of this, cant hear this, who is this please? everything is me, me, me,... me being JE) is cold reading.

Renata: You said before the case for mediumship does not turn on JE. In fact, you felt JE was cold reading during his most recent LKL appearance. I believe every instance of JE I have seen- all LKL appearance, CO episodes and this show he does the very same thing, only sometimes he may be luckier than others.

I don't dsagree. I have never seen a worse example of cold reading, textbook classic, than JE's last performance on LKL. As I pointed out at the outset he admonished callers not to give him any information. He took two breaths and then he started asking for the same information he warned callers against giving him. Is he for real?
Doesn't he think some people might notice this? With respect to CO, yes, he asks questions in that arena also. However, we have seen him get some amazing hits not based on questionning nor a possibility of hot reading (since the info of some of this nature wouldn't be publicly available). You would chalk it up to getting lucky. I am not so sure. Perhaps like the scientific claims for mediumship, the ability to sense information ebbs and flows at different times. But in the final analysis, I will repeat it again: do not rest your total perspective or any conclusions on the validity of post mortem communication of some kind merely on Edward or Browne.

 

[CFLarsen]

Indeed the performances were chopped to pieces by the editors to highlight the negative aspects they wanted to highlight. I do not rest my conclusions on JE on this performance. Again, having seen a medium who allows the communicator to speak through her, verbatim, is an experience I shall not soon forget. Seeing JE playing the game of 20 Questions and repying in the 2nd person (Me, I, myself, I am not sure of this, cant hear this, who is this please? everything is me, me, me,... me being JE) is cold reading.

Steve, you cannot expect anyone to take you seriously, before you allow us to see this fantastic reading of yours. Given your history of lies and deceit, nobody takes your word for it.

However, we have seen him get some amazing hits not based on questionning nor a possibility of hot reading (since the info of some of this nature wouldn't be publicly available). You would chalk it up to getting lucky. I am not so sure. Perhaps like the scientific claims for mediumship, the ability to sense information ebbs and flows at different times.

Classic cop-out: Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Strange thing is: It never works in the company of skeptics, only believers.

But in the final analysis, I will repeat it again: do not rest your total perspective or any conclusions on the validity of post mortem communication of some kind merely on Edward or Browne.

And I will repeat it again: Nobody is doing this. I will also repeat this: If you know of a medium who is capable of "post mortem communication" (that's a new one!), then say so.

Put up or shut up, Steve. Nobody is impressed with your lengthy posts. Let's see the evidence. Let's see this fantastic reading you got.

 

[Peter Jenkins]

Indeed the performances were chopped to pieces by the editors to highlight the negative aspects they wanted to highlight. I do not rest my conclusions on JE on this performance

I haven't seen this show. I can only base my judgement of JE on 'crossing over', which (one would surmise) is edited to make JE look BETTER than he actually is.
He is still a bad cold reader.

Originally posted by Ratman_tf
I have a Martian War Machine in my garage.

But you can't see it.

That's quite a teasing line, Ratman. This unspecified Martian War Machine sounds interesting.......maybe a good contender for a Pentagon research grant. maybe you bring it to their attention.
P