A worrying trend in the "Truther" movement

Plutonium

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Has anyone noticed a worrying trend among 9/11 conspiracy theorists in the past couple of years? Previously it was believed that 9/11 was an "inside job", perpetrated by elements in the US establishment; or at the least, that they knew of the plot, but did nothing about it.

Now there is an increasing belief that either Israel was partly involved,or the whole thing was a Zionist "false flag" operation. Some of the websites plugging this line are virulently anti-Zionist and there is some thinly disguised anti-semitism.

A major plank in the "evidence" for this, is the case of the so-called "dancing Israelis". A woman called "Maria" looked out of her New Jersey apartment on 9/11 and allegedly saw five men of Middle Eastern appearance in the parking lot. They seemed to be making a film of the attacks. They appeared "happy" and were not at all shocked by events.

She took down the number plate, and reported this to the police. The men were later arrested and turned out to be Israelis. They were held for questioning, but the FBI could find no evidence of any involvement in the attacks. They were released but deported due to immigration violations.

This is what is known or can reasonably be believed from the available evidence. However, the story has become embellished so much that it is now written in tablets of stone that the men had their camera set up before the attacks, indicating foreknowledge; also that they were dancing and high-fiving.

There is, of course, no evidence for any of this; moreover, nobody has seen the film they are alleged to have made of the attacks. However, on this flimsy basis a whole new subset of the Truther movement has arisen, holding that Israel was behind the attacks, and that these men were Mossad agents intending to film it.

In another forum I was involved in a discussion with a "Truther" on this topic; despite my asking him repeatedly for the evidence of foreknowledge, he was unable to do so, but neither was he willing to concede that these allegations were anything less than "fact". It was like dealing with a religious believer.

What are people's views on the growth of this Zionist "false flag" theory? Is it a cause for concern, and does it stem, or will it lead to, a revival of anti-semitism?
 
Probably a necessary stage in shuffling the Truther movement off into total irrelevancy. Not that there was any doubt that was going to happen.
 
I actually think the cake, the Reuters journalists and the Dancing Palestinians was a far more horrific story.

When you consider the time difference and the sunlight, the moment those planes struck those journos were heading down to East Jerusalem to entrap a woman and a bunch of children

awful. I always try not to imagine the inner moral life of an Illuminati, but something like that always hits me.
 
???? This is hardly new they've a good percentage of truthers have been frothing at the mouth about this for years now.
 
Plutonium, the dancing Israelis story isn't new, and anti-Zionists and anti-semites have tried to shove guilt on Israel since 9/12/2001.

Could be your personal perception, or some coincidental trend that you ran into. Or maybe many of the not-so-anti-Jewish truthers have gone extinctr in recent years (lost interest or even learned to accept reality), and only the most rabid of truthers are still around and active.
 
I actually think the cake, the Reuters journalists and the Dancing Palestinians was a far more horrific story.
...

I agree, that was a bad piece of journalism. But it is off-topic here. Maybe you want to start a new thread about it. Although I expect it to become boring after post 1, as I suspect no-one would much disagree with you about the facts of that particular matter, or your assessment of them.
 
Previously it was believed that 9/11 was an "inside job", perpetrated by elements in the US establishment; or at the least, that they knew of the plot, but did nothing about it. Now there is an increasing belief that either Israel was partly involved,or the whole thing was a Zionist "false flag" operation.

I think what you're seeing is anti-Semitism comprising a larger percentage of the Truth movement, simply because those without anti-Semitic motives have abandoned 9-11 Truth.

The anti-Bush Administration segment of the Truth movement has mostly disappeared, because there's no more Bush Administration to oppose. The lifelong conspiracy nuts have moved onto Obama Birtherism and other new conspiracies. No one's producing new 9-11 Truth movies and books and events anymore; the few that are made are re-hashings or tangents. The recent Zadroga bill eliminates the Truth movements' opportunity to attract supporters under the guise of "helping first responders."

I think this is a good thing. Perhaps in the next few years, 9-11 Truth will be as obvious an indicator of anti-Semitism as citing the Protocols of you-know-what.
 
Has anyone noticed a worrying trend among 9/11 conspiracy theorists in the past couple of years? Previously it was believed that 9/11 was an "inside job", perpetrated by elements in the US establishment; or at the least, that they knew of the plot, but did nothing about it.

Now there is an increasing belief that either Israel was partly involved,or the whole thing was a Zionist "false flag" operation. Some of the websites plugging this line are virulently anti-Zionist and there is some thinly disguised anti-semitism.

A major plank in the "evidence" for this, is the case of the so-called "dancing Israelis". A woman called "Maria" looked out of her New Jersey apartment on 9/11 and allegedly saw five men of Middle Eastern appearance in the parking lot. They seemed to be making a film of the attacks. They appeared "happy" and were not at all shocked by events.

She took down the number plate, and reported this to the police. The men were later arrested and turned out to be Israelis. They were held for questioning, but the FBI could find no evidence of any involvement in the attacks. They were released but deported due to immigration violations.

This is what is known or can reasonably be believed from the available evidence. However, the story has become embellished so much that it is now written in tablets of stone that the men had their camera set up before the attacks, indicating foreknowledge; also that they were dancing and high-fiving.

There is, of course, no evidence for any of this; moreover, nobody has seen the film they are alleged to have made of the attacks. However, on this flimsy basis a whole new subset of the Truther movement has arisen, holding that Israel was behind the attacks, and that these men were Mossad agents intending to film it.

In another forum I was involved in a discussion with a "Truther" on this topic; despite my asking him repeatedly for the evidence of foreknowledge, he was unable to do so, but neither was he willing to concede that these allegations were anything less than "fact". It was like dealing with a religious believer.

What are people's views on the growth of this Zionist "false flag" theory? Is it a cause for concern, and does it stem, or will it lead to, a revival of anti-semitism?

???? This is hardly new they've a good percentage of truthers have been frothing at the mouth about this for years now.

old news.

Plutonium, the dancing Israelis story isn't new, and anti-Zionists and anti-semites have tried to shove guilt on Israel since 9/12/2001.

Could be your personal perception, or some coincidental trend that you ran into. Or maybe many of the not-so-anti-Jewish truthers have gone extinctr in recent years (lost interest or even learned to accept reality), and only the most rabid of truthers are still around and active.

I really hate to pile on, Plutonium, but the antisemetic strain had been there quite early. For example, Carol Valentine, noted holocaust denier, started writing about 9/11 in October of 2001. Eric Hufschmid, too was there quite early. Not from the very beginning, but quite early.

These threads can provide a foundation for researching the beginnings of 9/11 conspiracy fantasy:
... and you can see who was there creating and peddling conspiracy myth soon after the event happened.

Antisemetism and/or holocaust denial isn't a necessary or required trait for believing in 9/11 conspiracy fantasy. But as I noted elsewhere, it's saddening that it happens enough to be noteworthy.
 
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I note people's comments that the "Zionist false flag" conspiracy theory is not particularly new. It may be a matter of perception, but it seems to me that it has become more prominent recently. Maybe it is true that with Bush gone, the "anti-Bush" strand of trutherism has lost its cause celebre, leaving even more extreme factions in the Truther movement.
 
I agree, that was a bad piece of journalism. But it is off-topic here. Maybe you want to start a new thread about it. Although I expect it to become boring after post 1, as I suspect no-one would much disagree with you about the facts of that particular matter, or your assessment of them.

You will find that very few people in Germany and virtually no one outside Germany actually know the story. It is known in Germany because the Hoax was exposed by German media. But not one english language paper carried the story.

It was a perfect piece of Illuminati news management. As soon as the story came out in germany, an impeccable left wing Brazilian student posted something about his lecturer saying they had recycled 1991 gulf war footage. This completely unsourced rumour was then loudly pushed around the internet, while the true German story was barely heard at all. Reuters then issued a holy-than-thou, wounded-innocence rebuttal of the claim that they had used archival 1991 material - and completely ignored the German story.

If I was to start a thread on it, no matter how clearly I delineated it from the false 1991 archival footage claim - someone would pop up in 5 minutes and say "oh that has been debunked" and link to a snopes etc webpage on the 1991 story.

A textbook case of Illumati Information Control, exploiting their leverage on both sides of the political divide.

I think this is a good thing. Perhaps in the next few years, 9-11 Truth will be as obvious an indicator of anti-Semitism as citing the Protocols of you-know-what.

I can see a very obvious risk there, but who am I to give advice?
 
One of the first conspiracies was days (if not a day) after 9/11 about some 500 Jews not showing up for work at the World Trade Center.
 
I Noticed that Truthers often capitalize SAUDI when mocking the idea that they would have been capable of flying the planes. I keep asking them why they do that but never get a straight answer. I get the impression many truthers are the sort of person that like using the N word when describing African Americans.
 
To heck with Bush and Israel, everyone knows that Clinton did it :D
 
One of the first conspiracies was days (if not a day) after 9/11 about some 500 Jews not showing up for work at the World Trade Center.

Wasn't it 10,000? Based on the rather illogical position that there were estimated to be about 10,000 Jews who worked in the area, and there was no evidence that any Jews had been killed, ergo clearly no Jews were actually in the area. Never mind that the State Department or whoever issued the victim lists didn't actually release religious or ethnic information for the victims. I think the Truther sleuth just took the victim list and did a search for all instances of "stein".
 
"Worrying trend". What evidence do you have of this new "trend"?

More like a concern troll trying to resurrect the "truthers are anti-semites!" meme.
 
"Worrying trend". What evidence do you have of this new "trend"?

More like a concern troll trying to resurrect the "truthers are anti-semites!" meme.

Facts never die.
 

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