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A universe with God.

CWL

Funkateer
CWL
Joined
Jul 20, 2002
Messages
1,401
Let's examine existence with God...

... on second thought, let's not. See, even if we do assume that "He" does exist (for which I personally, for the avoidance of doubt, see no evidence), he's either not omnipotent or he's quite frankly not a very nice guy. Either way, not a "God" that this heathen feels like bowing down to anyway.

Yes folks it is once again time to discuss that most interesting of arguments against the existence of a benevolent and omnipotent supreme being - I give you:

The Theodicy Problem

If one has the power to create everything, why even create such a concept as "evil"? I want a refund.
 
CWL said:

Let's examine existence with God...

... on second thought, let's not. See, even if we do assume that "He" does exist (for which I personally, for the avoidance of doubt, see no evidence), he's either not omnipotent or he's quite frankly not a very nice guy. Either way, not a "God" that this heathen feels like bowing down to anyway.

Yes folks it is once again time to discuss that most interesting of arguments against the existence of a benevolent and omnipotent supreme being - I give you:

If one has the power to create everything, why even create such a concept as "evil"? I want a refund.
Click to expand...
The sun shines on both the good and the bad. Which in fact "is" benevolence.

Thus we're allowed the freedom of choice, in order that we might "learn" from our mistakes.

Besides, how could we acknowledge God if we were merely automatons?
 
In my experience, until someone has overcome their personal Theidiocy problem, they are completely unaffected by the Theodicy problem.
 
If god exist, then he can make illogical things.
If god can make illogical things, everything is possible.
If everything is possible, then is possible to do something that is not possible even in a universe where everything is possible.
And if that is not logical, it doesn't matter, since logic is not the ultimate true.
Therefore I won't conclude, because to reach a conclusion I need logic, but logic is outdated. But If I don't conclude it will be logical, so the only logical escape is to conclude without the logic. No, wait, that is sounding logical again.

Dammit.:mad:
 
DialecticMaterialist said:

If one is perfect, complete unto Itself, without needs or desires, why even create anything at all?
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What's the point in being a Creator if you don't create anything? And how could one acknowledge one's perfection if there was "nothing" imperfect to compare it to? ;)

Perhaps perfection is merely a process -- of cause and effect if you will -- by which to acknowledge that which is already perfect?
 
LuxFerum said:
If god exist, then he can make illogical things.
If god can make illogical things, everything is possible.
If everything is possible, then is possible to do something that is not possible even in a universe where everything is possible.
And if that is not logical, it doesn't matter, since logic is not the ultimate true.
Therefore I won't conclude, because to reach a conclusion I need logic, but logic is outdated. But If I don't conclude it will be logical, so the only logical escape is to conclude without the logic. No, wait, that is sounding logical again.

Dammit.:mad:
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And what is logic without the ability to be illogical? ;)
 
Iacchus said:
What's the point in being a Creator if you don't create anything?
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That's the ultimate question, my friends. And probably, this is what God asked himself during one of those endless nights as he was playing chess with himself:

"WTF, if I am going to call myself a 'Creator', I'd better create something. Should I create a monoverse ? Should I create an amphiverse ? What about a universe ? Oh, that sounds good... I guess I'll create a universe."
 
El Greco said:

That's the ultimate question, my friends. And probably, this is what God asked himself during one of those endless nights as he was playing chess with himself:

"WTF, if I am going to call myself a 'Creator', I'd better create something. Should I create a monoverse ? Should I create an amphiverse ? What about a universe ? Oh, that sounds good... I guess I'll create a universe."
Click to expand...
So now we want to take the words away from what the words imply. Interesting game. ;)
 
Re: Re: A universe with God.

Iacchus said:
The sun shines on both the good and the bad. Which in fact "is" benevolence.
Click to expand...

Take starving children in Africa who were born with HIV for example. Do you call merely "shining" on that occurrence benevolence?!?

I say get of your lazy omnipotent a$$ and do something about it!

Thus we're allowed the freedom of choice, in order that we might "learn" from our mistakes.
Click to expand...

Oh, I see. So the starving children in Africa chose to starve and to be born with HIV, did they? Pray tell what did they "learn" from this "mistake"?

Besides, how could we acknowledge God if we were merely automatons?
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Free will doesn't explain earthquakes, illness or why good people should have to endure the evil of others.

If that is the Universe "God" has created then I freely acknowledge that he is an absolute a-hole.


Edited for typos, the occurence of which is yet another example of the imperfection of God as a creator
 
Originally posted by CWL
If that is the Universe "God" has created then I freely acknowledge that he is an absolute a-hole.
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Come now, that's not being very charitable. Even if God did create the universe, it doesn't mean he's necessarily an a-hole. He could just be grossly incompetent.
 
Marquis de Carabas said:

Come now, that's not being very charitable. Even if God did create the universe, it doesn't mean he's necessarily an a-hole. He could just be grossly incompetent.
Click to expand...

True, true. Hence my demand for a refund. Perhaps it is time for a a recall?

"My felloow citizeens of de Univeeerz. Ee'ts time to have a Supreme Being who caerz aboot ze people. I say eet's Chudchment Day foor Governor God."
 
Originally posted by Iacchus
What's the point in being a Creator if you don't create anything? And how could one acknowledge one's perfection if there was "nothing" imperfect to compare it to? ;)
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So he's merely being vain :rolleyes:

Well, if he sends me to hell, he can expect a couple of volleys of brimstone to fly around his ears, thrown by yours truly.
 
Re: Re: Re: A universe with God.

CWL said:

Take starving children in Africa who were born with HIV for example. Do you call merely "shining" on that occurrence benevolence?!?

I say get of your lazy omnipotent a$$ and do something about it!
Click to expand...
Without cause and effect how would we learn from our mistakes?


Oh, I see. So the starving children in Africa chose to starve and to be born with HIV, did they? Pray tell what did they "learn" from this "mistake"?
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But then again we don't know who's redeemable and who isn't? And as I understand, those who die as little children go to heaven ... because it isn't their sin.


Free will doesn't explain earthquakes, illness or why good people should have to endure the evil of others.
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If we had to suffer thoughout enternity at the hands of others then you might have a point. ;) But I understand that hell is only reserved for those who want to be there or, can't stand to be in heaven without "taking it out" on others.


If that is the Universe "God" has created then I freely acknowledge that he is an absolute a-hole.
Click to expand...
I think you may have taken this temporary finite world for the real thing ...


Edited for typos, the occurence of which is yet another example of the imperfection of God as a creator
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Yes, and without the proclivity to make mistakes? ...
 
Originally posted by Diogenes
Why does (a) God need to be acknowledged? Particularly by the pain of it's creation?
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In addition to the previously noted fact that God (if such exists) is either an a-hole or grossly incompetent (or maybe both, who knows?), he has a self-esteem problem.
 
Re: Re: A universe with God.

Iacchus said:
The sun shines on both the good and the bad. Which in fact "is" benevolence.

Thus we're allowed the freedom of choice, in order that we might "learn" from our mistakes.

Besides, how could we acknowledge God if we were merely automatons?
Click to expand...

the sun shines on both the good and the bad. Which in fact "is" benevolence.
Click to expand...


No it is evidence of the fact that the earth rotates around the sun.

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explainthe known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." -- David Brooks ...


Thus we're allowed the freedom of choice, in order that we might "learn" from our mistakes.
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“allowed” can you prove we are “allowed” and who does the allowing?

May I ask and sadly have no hope that you will answer but will ask.
1-When a child is kidnapped, raped, beaten, tortured and killed was the child allowed free will and a chance to learn from their mistakes?

2- a child is born with a grave painful illness suffers and dies after a year of pain. Was the child allowed free will and a chance to learn from their mistakes? Were their parents and loved ones allowed free will and a chance to learn from their mistakes?

3- Today like every day 24000-27000 will starve to death after months of pain, were they allowed free will and a chance to learn from their mistakes?

4- an innocent man is placed in a dark hole for 30 years and tortured and dies, never again in the 30 years to see the sun shine on him. Was they allowed free will and a chance to learn from their mistakes?

My great friend stop thinking emotionally and seeking to make reality fit into your “conclusion” look at all things with open eyes not blinders.
 
exarch said:
So he's merely being vain :rolleyes:
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What do you think? Does the universe in any way attempt to get us to acknowledge how "prideful" it is? ... with the possible exception of us humans of course. ;)


Well, if he sends me to hell, he can expect a couple of volleys of brimstone to fly around his ears, thrown by yours truly.
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Oh, you'd probably be too busy creating a rukus with your own kind.
 
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